I'm curious why do you say that? What changes down the road to cause Lt's like me to change the way they think? I'm not disagreeing with you and I realize I'm still wet behind the ears and ultimately really probably have no idea what I'm talking about so I always like to get insight from those that have been there done that.

Absolutely. We just never see them come down in the drops. How does it work with C-21's as far as ops to ops tours though? Are C-21's considered to be like a white jet tour so that you can get back to back ops to ops assignments or would the typical career track be C-21's - MWS - AETC?

As a C17 guy I can really only talk to my world. Being a FAIP hurts you not at all, zero effect on your progression. You'll show up as a second assignment guy, just like someone who grew up at a C17 base, be about a year behind the average guy in progression. And will catch up fast. Apparently ACIQ is coming back, if so the progression will be even sooner. By the end of that first tour you'll be indisguishable from a home grown C17 guy.

I know a few FAIPs who had trouble. To anyone who knew them it was pretty obvious their problems came from being morons, nothing specific about FAIPhood.

Been a while since I talked to my 135 buds but as of a few years ago what you said was corrrect. At 100 hours in the 135 you were an AC.

As to the fighter world, fewer connections but I am in a composite wing. There's only one fighter guy here I was a FAIP with, to say he's doing well would be an understatement. But I'll ask around next week and get their viewpoints.

As to the quality of FAIPs in UPT world, Duece we'll just have to disagree. I was a FAIP so obviously I have a different viewpoint...here goes. The absolute worst IPs came from MWS, hands down. It was clear that some bases would get a white jet assignment, no one wanted it, so they'd flush their worst performing not going to upgrade hands of brick brains of mush to UPT. Usually with a wavier for not being an AC. Majority of IPs were fine, regardless of where they came from. If you wanted a nit-noid, anal rententive moron completely lacking in perspective, often that was a FAIP, true. As I always told my students though, if you want to know what an MWS is like, if you want to hear about the AF, combat etc, go talk to an MWS guy. If you want to pass your checkride...go talk to the person who eats breathes and sleeps AETC because that's all he knows. I found regardless of my giving that advice or not, that's usually where they ended up. As I said, we can just disagree on that one.

There's a lot of fun to being a copilot, and you will miss that. You have to decide if it's okay or not. I enjoyed flying white jets. Was ready to move on and it's a small world, but I really did like it.

Good luck on your decision

[quote=Deuce130;452708]I think the guys who told you that are dead wrong. The guy who goes to a MWS right out of UPT almost always has it over the guy who was a FAIP. There are exceptions, however. I also think you've already talked yourself into it. Good luck, hopefully it turns out for the best.[/quote]

Say what?!? Must be an airframe dependent thing. In my community FAIPs show up to ACIQ day one, straight to the left seat. IP quals on the books also provide them differential minimums so as to essentially upgrade to IP with less MWS time than the home-grown type, essentially washing out the time difference. We can debate the virtues of "paying your dues" on the right seat all day (I could make a whole new thread about that), but from a career perspective, at least in my community the Faip incoming isn't missing out on anything. Perhaps that's the exception you were referring to. And from the perspective of the OP guy wanting to transition to the Guard and intent on doing the airline gig (again to each their own...) he's getting about 3 more years of primo TPIC time. In this scenario, I would totally go FAIP and come out with more TPIC while maximizing the likelyhood of punching out without incurring additional ADSC and/or palace chasing, while retaining currency (as important as TPIC), not to mention maximizing the cumulative amount of time per 10 years one gets to sexually harrass the wife (if you're into her more than 'training deployments'). YMMV as always.

Fly,

In regards to the comments about the difference between now and the ten year point:

1. You may have 2.5 kids, a mortgage, two car payments and a stay at home Mom.
2. The airline industry could be just like it is now, a mess.
3. Some carriers will be strong and possibly hiring, however there is no guarantee that you will get picked up by one.
4. Your home town unit is now flying tankers (KC135's I think). The BRAC hasn't been nice to the Guard / Reserve units and they may be gone or not doing a flying job (UAV's maybe) ten years from now.
5. You might actually enjoy the military and the security it offers (better on the inside than out).

If you are wise you will cover your bets (do SOS and ACSC) to make sure you are promotable should you decide to stay in. Even if you have a Guard / Reserve unit lined up they are going to want you to do those things to be promoted.

As for being a volunteer FAIP or not that's up to the AF and you (in that order). Both have their pluses and minuses. I do concur with the post about who gets you through your check ride and who gives real world experience (nope, I wasn't a FAIP).

The airlines put a lot of bias on letters of recommendation. There was a guy in my interview group at FedEx who got blackballed by someone in his past. Learning point: Don't be a dick.

Regardless of which course you take do your best at it. That work ethic and attitude will carry much further than "playing the game" or getting "face time" in the hallway.

Fly safe,
Biff

I was a FAIP (duh) then went to the CAF, now a reservist flying for a certain Frac company. Being a FAIP was great for me. I never went to the right seat in my MWS which saved me from having to suck up a non-vol tour as an ALO, UAV ect. Looking back being a faip in the tweet was the best job I ever had in flying. I say looking back because as a FAIP it sucks. Same thing every day, same wonderful location for 4.5 years (KEND) and lots of cool stories from my friends out in the MWS world I could think of while stepping for the third time on a C2302 at 101 degrees in OK. One big thing to keep in mind. Don't play for the future. The AF will change its mind 69 times about what it is going to do by the time you get to the end of your FAIP tour. Don't suck up being a FAIP just cause you think you will be in a better place 3 years down the road. You don't get guranteed assignments and the AF can even make your FAIP tour as long as they want. I personally know guys who were faips for 5 years. If you like the mission, and instructing is one of the hardest and best jobs there is, go for it. If you just want the FAIP as a place filler until you are more experienced or your wife is done with school, it will be the longest 3 years of your life.

Remember, FAIPing is a combat assignment. You engage in hand to hand combat every day with an unformed mass of pilot sitting a few feet away. The lessons you learn as a FAIP will help you throughout your career, but like any learning experience in the AF, it can be painful and the returns may be years away. If it were me, I would do it again in a heartbeat, even in the tweet. But that T-6 looks phat, so I would be perplexed. Sorry for the spelling.

You will just be in a different place in life when you're 35 versus when you're 25. You will value different things. What seems like a good idea now will look very different after 10 years of service.

I was just like you...I said "I don't care about going to school...", I said "I'll be happy if I can just fly...", I said "I don't care if I make Major/Lt Col", I said "I'm never gonna be one of those square-punchers who does stuff just to make rank."

Well, guess what. I turned out to be one. I am doing my Masters. I am working in a Wing Staff job. I'm actually considering *volunteering* for a remote so I can set myself up for better assignments at the end of my active duty road. I'm doing a lot of the stuff I swore I would never do when I was a Lieutenant.

Haven't read everyone else's, but I say go for it! I was a FAIP in the tone for 2.5 yrs and I loved it. You still fly your a$$ off and it's all PIC/Instrctr time. Your learning curve will never be steeper. Your airmanship will improve by leaps and bounds. PM me if you have any questions, I was in your shoes about 10 yrs ago.

For all attempting to be a career graybeard in the USAF, staying in a cockpit while the careerists punch tickets- you are fighting the machine. Once you've got a few years on station you're fighting to stay under the noise and keep the DPAR robot at bay from pushing you to the top of the heap of the next bad assignment destined for your unit. Enjoy. I found it to get mighty old mighty quick. Musical chairs are for kids to play, most before they learn about the sandbox- pun intended I guess.... Hey, when does OTBH become an accompanied overseas?

From an earlier post-The C-21 is an OSA tour and as such you would go to a MWS after it, similar to being a FAIP( with an XX followon).

That being said, I would put what MWS' you really want down on your dream sheet followed by FAIP, the reason I say it is because the only time in 13 years in the AF I had any say in what I flew was in UPT. I got my Herk to AK and guys who waited, saw EDF get rid of hercs. So, just an example of asking the man for your dream plane and keeping the FAIP as a fall back, because let's say you want a C-17 after a FAIP tour, but the JCA is online in three years and you are stuck in, let's say, Cannon doing that, with a wife who is understandably ****ed she is in Cannon.

As to the "avoid the right seat argument", that was some of favorite experiences, being a Herc Copilot getting to learn with the bar set low. My friends that were PXAs, (crossflows from tankers, FAIPs or C9/21s) had a steep learning curve and had little experience in the MWS to draw upon as they were tasked to be the PIC. Now it is not a difficult mountain to overcome, but if you're like me, you're lazy and like to get to know one airframe and then put the brain on cruisecontrol.