Vito

Another story from UPT (87-04) My IP was a real hard ass who proudly displayed 12 "Dollar Ride" dollar bills under the glass of his desk...He told me on the first day of UPT that only one of those studs graduated, he washed the others out!! As we started flying the mighy Tweet, he'd get angry over something I did and curse at me a little....nothing too vulgar (I'm from NYC) afterwards in the debrief, He'd always apologize about the cursing part. After a few rides like this I told him.."Lt Morton, you don't have to apologize for cursing at me, matter of fact you can call me anything you want, just teach me to fly" He leaned back in his chair with a gleen in his eye and smiles and tells me " Vito, you got it all wrong, I'm not here to teach you to fly, I'm here to wash your sorry ass out! If you can get through me, then you deserve your wings!" I kid you not!!! But it turned out he took a liking to me, probably because I looked like Chuck Yeager compared to my other 2 tablemates (each IP had 3 studs) and I managed to do well. Not all IP's were like him, some were real laid back and really helped their students along, but most had been ****ted-on by their IP's and dished it out to us like they were treated when they went through. I thought it was part of the program to see how much pressure students could handle....either way not one of the students in my class (around 60+) ever came back from a busted 89 ride, so it was 3 strikes your out, and in reality if you busted an 88 ride, guys were under a huge magnifying glass and only a few manged to pass an 89....

SoPinesHeel

It was so much tougher back in the day...I had it the toughest...walking up hill both ways...blah blah blah blah.

If everything was so much tougher back in the day, and everyone was so much better, why were accident rates so much higher?

Vito

SoPinesHeel,

Take the chip off your shoulder, It is an accomplishment to graduate UPT Period!! no matter when you may have gone through. However it is pretty well proven that during certain periods, the odds of graduating were greatly enhanced or diminished due to circumstances beyond a students control. Luck and timing play a huge role in the outcome.

bunk22

My guess is less restrictions, no NATOPS, SOP, CRM, ORM, etc.

USMCFLYR

....no NAMP, Angled decks, meatball, .........
Where is that slide when you need it?

USMCFLYR

SoPinesHeel

Fine, I can agree with most of those remarks, including the bit about the needs of the air force governing the washout rate.

I have no chip I assure you. I just laugh at how everyone always thinks that their experience was the toughest. Sure it was...

bunk22

I can look at it, from the Navy perspective, as the flight training is the same. How the Navy conducts the MPTS process vs the old way grading system, the old way was more difficult. It was less tolerant so to speak, thus more difficult in a way. Once in the fleet, the rules, regs, angled decks, etc make it a more safe environment relatively speaking and thus, probably seems less difficult. But the training environment was the focus here.

Vito

Another aspect of UPT that has affected wash-out rates is the 2-track system, ie. splitting students into Fighter/Bomber T-38's versus T-1's for the Tanker/Transport track. The T-38 syllabus was pretty demanding and has been the reason for many studs to be eliminated from the program.

CAFB 04-12

I think you're probably on to something here. I know I would have struggled mightily in the T-38 program. As it turned out, I did fine in the T-1 track, but my g-tolerance and inverted-tolerance weren't very good to be sure. I think pilots raised in the T-38 that went on to fly heavies are a different breed (in a good way) than us T-1 younguns that spent more time flying instrument approaches into a quality lunch-and-back location.

Vito

CAFB 04-12

Don't sell yourself short, many guys who did OK in Tweets kicked ass in 38's, and vice versa. My good friend was one of the top sticks in T-37's but his huge weakness was formation which was a large part of the T-38 program. Most guys adapted quickly to the higher speeds and "faster thinking" demanded of the 38, but others had real problems in the pattern, and formation. The 38 is a different animal to land, and many studs had a problem figuring it out...and formation was pretty demanding. If you were a strong instrument pilot it was little help in 38's till the end of the program when Navigation was emphisized....Unfortunately alot of good studs couldn't master the pattern or formation to get to the Nav portion.