Deuce130

No crying in the debriefs. I had one female tear up, but I think that had more to do with how women handle frustration/anger than any instability issues. I pressed on with the debrief and she composed herself. As a WIC IP, I gave my fair share of stern debriefs. Guys could get mad if they wanted, but they had to maintain their composure, just like I had to. Without crying or whining.

USMCFLYR

Agreed...or without having an excuse for every little thing (excuse matrix).

USMCFLYR

LivingInMEM

This is about UPT, not WIC. FWIW, I do have a problem with a WIC candidate tearing up in a debrief. She is going to become a WEAPONS OFFICER, you don't need weapons officers who tear up in debriefs. There are plenty of women in C-130's who do not tear up in debriefs. The question remains, what do you do for women who cry in the debrief? Is that an unsat or a reason for a command directed prog check? Do you annotate it on the gradesheet?

So, why do guys have to maintain their composure, but not women. Are women not capable? Is this another example of "we have our standards, but you are physically incapable of meeting them so we will give you a pass?" Is compartmentalization a good thing or not, or is it just good for guys. Guys can't throw stuff around in a debrief, they can't roll their eyes, they can't do the deep sigh - they have to sit there and take it without emotion. But only guys?

I know many women who made it through without crying, and they thought the criers should be gone - they made them look bad for one. It's not the only one, but it's just another case of changing the standard to the individual rather than making the individual adapt to the standard. If the standards were not important enough to enforce, why have them at all?

XHooker

I don't want to get into a big "our way is better than yours" ****ing match as both seem to accomplish the end result, it's just the "sea services" seem to do it with less pain.

blastoff

Not saying which one is better either. We always hear how the Navy side is a "big boy" program with very little hand-holding through training. Guys seem to do just fine without the "haze."

III Corps

That it happens at all is a bit disconcerting. Crying during a debrief? Wow.. hate to say it but back in the 60s, if you did that your fellow studs would have put in an SIE for you. Crying? ...know more than a few situations where guys said we can continue this in the parking lot if you wish... and a few did.

HercDriver130

NO CRYING in FLYING!!!

Well I started this thread and I can tell you it was not a kinder gentler UPT back in 86 when I went thru. It was stressful and they meant for it to be stressful... we started 66 and graduated 27 and only one of those was a medical wash back. In 37s I had my helmet banged off the canopy a few times... but dammit.. you learned not to make those mistakes again... it was both the best year of my life and the worst all rolled into one!!

As far as busting every checkride twice... not in my day... I went to an 88/89 in lieu of my form check in 38s because of a really aggressive rejoin... single item hook.... retrain....and re check both the next day with the head of stan eval to a one down grade excellent. I dont know of anyone in my class who busted more than two checkrides and all passed their retakes.

Then... now... who knows which is better or worse. But I have damn fine memories of that year in the desert.

HercDriver130

so...1987 was the highest attrit year... like I said.... my class was nearly 60percent... must have been a class of retards!!!! lol

UPTme

I can't find the quote, but it was from a current stud at VN. '2 hooked tests and you're gone' is shenanigans. You get 3 hooks on tests and then you go to a CC review.

Failing out of UPT in Phase 1 is all but impossible. If you do, it is imperative that you immediately complete the DRINK BLEACH checklist. It's a new boldface:

BOTTLE TOP - TWIST
BLEACH - CHUG

GunshipGuy

You think busting out in phase I of UPT is hard; imagine a guy doing it out of nav school. Hooked three tests and he was gone--hard to do.

BTW, I think the data on attrition rates likely follows the graph in relation to DoD spending budgets from peaks to troughs.