Mox Nix

24 is not automatic. IF they are offering it, then you'll get some detailed documents explaining all the ramifications. The choice is up to you to accept or decline the 24-year offer.

Continuation rules are set for each board....check the AFPC website about the announcements for this upcoming O-5 board, and there may be mention of what AFSCs will be offered the extra continuation. If you can't find it there, then at the very least you'll be told what your continuation options are when the results are out and you receive your "sorry we didn't promote you again" letter. If your AFSC is not being offered 24, then you'll probably just get the passover letter and nothing else. If your AFSC is eligible for continuation to 24, then you'll get the detailed documents mentioned above.

When I was offered continuation to 24, I had the option of declining that and keeping my existing 20-yr DOS - which is a mandatory separation (retirement) date.

zach141

Just for SA here, regarding the bonus and its associated ADSC: The assigned mandatory retirement date definitely overrides the bonus ADSC. The thing to note is that they WILL take the bonus back FROM YOUR MIL PAY prior to your retirement (prorated), if it's mathematically possible. Which means: bank your last bonus, and expect to live off of it, 'cuz once you start outprocessing and Finance sees it, they will recoup it--the prepaid bonus is now A DEBT to the government. In my own example, my DOS and bonus time remaining were mismatched by four months; my next-to-the last AD (O-4) check was $700, and my final AD check was $0. So, heads up.

Mox Nix

I thought I posted this yesterday...

I looked up on the AFPC website for the continuation rules for the June 8 O-5 board. Here's the link: AFPC - Air Force Personnel Center (have to be on a .mil computer) On that page, there are .doc files posted with continuation plans for each upcoming board.

Here's an excerpt for Majors non-selected 2 or more times for O-5:

Each eligible major selected for continuation will be continued until such time as the officer qualifies for retirement under Section 8911, with the exception of rated (11XX, 12XX, and 13B) officers who will be offered continuation until they reach 24 years of Total Active Federal Commissioned Service (TAFCS).

So yes, pilots, navs, and ABMs will be offered continuation to 24. If you already have continuation to 20, you should be able to decline the 24 option and stay with your 20 yr DOS

BravoBackup

I read the same information above. This explains why my friend, who had a retirement date of 1 Jun, was told in March that if he could have stayed in until 8 Jun he could have stayed until 24 years if he desired. He wanted to stay until 24 years, but had to retire at 20 years and reapply after he retired.

DoomedTX

I hope the powers that be don't mind me resurrecting this 3 year old thread because it just became relevant to me. I retired 31 May and was surprised to see a $17k debt to the AF in my final active duty pay. Here's why I was surprised:

I'm looking at my original, signed ACP Agreement. According to it these are the conditions that would result in recouping ACP, word for word:

I was a passed-over major. In 2008 I accepted selective continuation to 20 and noticed a 31 May 2012 DOS was established for me in vMPF. In 2010 I was offered continuation until 24. I pondered it long and hard, using every day of the 60-day time period to decide. One of the factors was that the responsible officer at MPF told me very clearly my 31 May 2012 date was still a mandatory retirement and there would be no penalty for declining the additional continuation.

Surprise, surprise, I was given incorrect information by a government employee and now I am out $17k. They are saying my retirement was voluntary because I declined continuation until 24 and they are entitled to recoup. I think I might have a chance to fight it but don't know how to start to be honest. Any jailhouse lawyers out there want to add their 2 cents to what kind of chance I have?

LowSlowT2

Very slim to very none-at-all.

Got written documentation of this? If not (as I suspect), you're screwed. Read the continuation paperwork you signed too. I doubt it even addresses ADSC issues, but I don't recall exactly.

You denied continuation, rule #6 applies.

I was also a passed over Major. I read and re-read the continuation to 24 I was offered back sometime in 07 or 08. In the end, I signed it as it didn't obligate me to stay until 24, only allowed me to stay until 24. I couldn't possibly see a problem there. I called AFPC as well, just to verify I was reading it correctly. I asked the local MPF as well (talked to the Chief in the office). I signed it and I just retired at 20y4m...I did not stay until 24.

My bonus coincided with my 20yr, so wasn't an issue for me. However, I have at least one friend who was glad of the 24 yr option so he wouldn't have to pay back his bonus. Seemed to us at the time that it didn't absolve you of your bonus obligations.

I will concede that yours may not have been worded as ours were.

zach141

d. Separation after declination for selective continuation
e. Voluntary retirement or separation prior to the completion of the ACP ADSC
f. Mandatory separation as directed by Title 10 U.S.C. statutory retirement requirements

I'm confused why you're surprised. Seems to me that whether you call it d, e, or f, they're entitled to recoup. ??

Cioran

I'm the OP and appreciate your addition to the thread to be honest. You add another data point in the complex mismatch between bonus ADSC's (and up-front money) offered in the early 2000's and 20/24 options to DOS at continuation boards for passed-over O-4s.

Personally, I have just assumed that I will have to pay back whatever percentage I was "fronted" that falls into the last 1.6 years that I won't be serving. That's fine w/ me, i just want out at 20 now so it's worth it. That said, it isn't clear that the AF really has a 100 percent case for recouping just because they decided to offer "24". Why? Because on the last board, the one in which 150+ passed-over-Major's were shown the "door" instead of continuation, for the first time I was not offered the continuation to 24 (obviously). Every continuation board up until that point, I would get the usual, difficult to decipher series of options that had no applicability to me (other than 1 or 2) and I finally figured out the purpose wasnt that I was part of subsequent continuation board, but just being offered the option to 24.

In any case I am still assuming that I'll pay back the cash at this point, but I'd like to at least double check the calculus the AF uses on the final dollar amount.

With that, just curious as to how they calculated the 17K amount? How much time do you have between your date-of sep at 20 and your bonus ADSC?

Thanks.

rickair7777

It looks to me like either d) and/or f) would apply. Even without an opportunity to continue to 24, it looks like f) would trigger recoupment if an O-4 were to retire at 20 due to statutory limits, ie there's no way to game that system...the only way to keep the money is to keep serving. If you do not meet the service obligation then you don't get to keep the money. The statutory retirement clause seems harsh to me, but they were probably afraid of folks gaming the promotion system to non-select O-5, get forced retirement, and keep the outstanding bonus.

The one thing that was notable in it's absence is a clause about RIF's. Looks like if you got RIFed, you could keep the money.

Cioran

You're probably right---even w/o the offer to 24 you probably wouldn't be able to keep it due to the wording.

It is kind of a BS move by the AF though, for someone legitimately not gaming the system. I know of no one who was trying not to make O-5---the payoff is minimal, other than avoiding exposure to a deployment or some other specific personal reason to get out.