Cioran

I know a few guys recently who were eligible for retirement but were still on an ADSC for the bonus and were denied. But, they were LtCols with INDEF Date of Separations.

I'm a passed-over O-4 with now an actual date for my DOS on the books thanks to my continuation election to 20, although my bonus still takes me one year longer, to 21 years of service.

I can see where the AF told the guys with INDEF dates that they had to stay in until the end of the ADSC (well, AFPC didn't have to but of course chose to in our undermanned airframe), and I assume the same will be done to me....although is there something about a DOS that takes precedence? Or is it a judgment call by a commander and the chain for that situation (as well as AFPC)?

I assume the least favorable answer but I ask in hopes that someone may face or has heard of a similar issue. I'd like to retire at 20 in a few years, not 21.

Starlifter

Check with the bonus office at AFPC on this. My information is that they do not have oversight on who is forced to retire or not. They will continue to pay you up to your Ret date and then soon after try to recoup the money. I am guessing that your DOS is your mandatory ret date? My understanding is that you will be stuck to this date.

Kikuchiyo

I was also a passed-over O-4, and was forced to retire exactly at 20 years. We also had another guy in my unit who was in the same situation, passed over but with an ADSC showing beyond his 20 yr point. He thought that meant he would be allowed to stay past 20 to fulfill his ADSC, and was caught unawares when he got a RIP notifying him of his impending involuntary retirement.

The rules as written are that Majors can't serve past 20, even with an existing ADSC. But they are recalling retirees, so rumor has it that they're going to change the rules on mandatory retirement for O-4's to allow them to stay to 24 years. It'll all depend on how they word the change. Will it be completely voluntary to stay past 20? Will they make people stay to the end of their ADSC's, then it becomes voluntary to stay to 24? I'd expect the change to happen fairly soon, then you'll have a better answer.

Cioran

thanks for the info. For me getting passed over may have been a blessing in diguise as I want to get out at 20. I can see it going to 24 for all (not just U-2 and helo pilots), but like the previous poster said it is unknown whether this would be compulsory or voluntary.

There should be an organization for passed over majors, and a corresponding union. "this weeks topic--how to educate commander that you really aren't interested in additional duties." Particularly as you see classmates now getting promoted and hiding out from deployments in staff jobs.

BravoBackup

I had a conversation with a friend a few weeks ago who was told that if he weren't forced to retire on 1 Jun 09 as a passed over major he could have stayed until 24 years if his retirement date was 8 Jun 09 or later. He inquired as to why and was told that the mandatory 20yr date was going to change. All things being equal at AFPC, this may not have been entirely true or has changed since then, but if it does happen, could create more pilots in undermanned airframes. We are rehiring retirees and trying to fill cockpits/UAVs now with less than adequate numbers so I could see it happening as a stop gap measure.

Cioran

It's already happened with certain airframes and job specialties, continuation board by board--I think recently helicopter pilots, U-2 pilot, and even catholic priests (interesting group) have been offered continuation to 24 (although you can still sign the dotted line for 20). I can see the 24 option spreading out to all airframes at this point.

Mox Nix

Yes, the continuation rules are set for each board, and they've been expanding the pool recently. My 2nd passover happened in 2006, and continuation was to 20 for everyone. Back around the 99-2000 time frame they were offering continuation to 24 for all line Majors. We may be coming full circle again.

I had thought that my initial continuation offer (after 2nd non-promotion) was final. But last year I was offered continuation to 24 after my 4th passover because I had one of those select few AFSCs (11S, special ops). If what you say is true that they've expanded the 24 year offer to more AFSCs, then it's a good bet that they may offer it to all pilots soon...esp in light of the return to active duty offers and such.

A couple things to note: accepting continuation to 24 does not commit you to 24, it's not an ADSC - it just allows you to serve beyond 20. Second note: there is no requirement to accept the 24 year offer, you can decline continuation to 24 and stay with your original offer to 20.

Third note (or maybe this should have been first): BY LAW, a DOS established for non-promotion trumps any ADSCs. That's why Kikuchiyo's bud had to retire at 20 instead of finishing his ADSC. When this happens though, if you are on an ADSC for a bonus, and if you took the lump sum option, you will probably have to pay back some of that lump sum, prorated for the amount of ADSC you do not fulfill. I'm not completely sure on that though...since it's a mandatory DOS you might be ok.

When the next O-5 board results are released, and if they are offering you continuation to 24, they will send you a couple documents spelling out all of the options and ramifications. If there's no offer to 24, then your 20 year DOS is mandatory and you won't have to finish that ADSC to 21. I'm certain of that. The rest of it, like whether you have to finish the ADSC to 21 if they offer you 24, I'm not quite sure. I do remember that in the continuation documents, I could decline the offer to 24 and keep my DOS at the 20 year point.

I hope I helped a little bit, I realize I may have confused the issue.

BravoBackup

could make you more eligible for 1 yr remotes. Since the return date from a 1 yr tour must be prior to our 7 month DOS, an extension would make you eligible for more remotes. Subtract 19 months from our DOS and that's the latest point they could tag you. Now you are eligible all the way to 20 years. Declining the 1 year remote (3-day opt) would leave you with no retirement. I guess if you like our current location you could volunteer for a remote with a guaranteed follow-on back to your current base leaving our family settled for about 7-8 years.

LarianLeQuella

If your retirement date is set after 1 SEP you will be considered for continuation to 24 on the board happening next week. I was late to rate and took the 20 year, so I am now in a boat where I have to leave even if I don't want to.

If you took money up front, they will recoup it. Depending on how on the ball they are, it may show in your final paycheck. Although I am told it can take 4-5 months for the AF to notice. At that point, they will start by taking back 2/3 of your retirement check for as long as they need to.

You will get your last bonus check, but remember that they pay you for the year you are about to serve, so most of that will go back to them depending on dates and such.

Hope that helps (from a guy living the exact same story. Forced to retire 31 AUG, with 4 years left on ACP.).

Cioran

thanks for the info. My Date of Sep (which I guess means retirement as well) is 2013. ADSC to 2014. I plan to get out at 20, and signed the paperwork for such. To me the 1 yr and a few months of freedom (and not to be sent overseas again or PCS'd) is worth it versus the bonus for that one year.

Are you saying that there is a new board that will offer those of us on a current 20 yr DOS a chance to continue to 24? Or will it be automatic? I imagine the former as paperwork has already been signed. Again, I'm speaking as one who prefers to get out at 20, not a day later.