I wish you never would have told me that!!

 

Yep, draggy little jet. The wings are forward and overall make a stubby draggy bow wake. Any faster than 285 and it pushes up to the AOA vanes of the KC-135. The motors are not on isolators/shock mounts due to the long pylons to make the blown lift into the flaps- we make our own AR turbulence if the stick is over handled. The wake is bigger than Fred, a more efficient overall aircraft at cruise for its size. On the Gucci, #2 noticably blows onto the tail in closure, then at contact we're inside most of it. Done properly, you can use #2 of a KC-10 on the ground to deice the plane behind it....

 

My best no-kidding advice is, once you're AR-qualified, be EXTREMELY aggressive with your scheduler to get AR currency/plug flights, 'cuz they're limited and ARing a heavy ain't like riding a bike.

 

Yes! In fact, we have guys that will explore all of the limits and can even do the dreaded triple limit -- that is, full up or down, full left or right, and full in and out, all at the same time. I've seen pilots fly the outer limits of the box (first move far left, then move down, then full back, then full right, then full up, then full left, then back down). The really good pilots do this with the tanker's AP off.

For the record, I can do the triple limit, but I can only hold it for a few seconds before I breach a limit and auto-disconnected. The guys they send to the AMC Rodeo's are extremely talented in AR. One of the requirements my squadron used was NO intermittent lights on a KC10 or KC135 during AR -- in other words, center ALL of the time.

 

As a Freddy bubba I really hate AR. The really funny thing is that I'm actually pretty good at it, but I have a tendency to get myself all worked up over it. Once I get that "...contact" then it's game on and I now compete with myself to see if I can hang to get the gas without dropping off the boom. (knock on wood) hasn't happened yet .

My advice to you is know your platform and know what you're refueling against. I hate the 10, just my preference, but I prefer the 135. Most of the guys in my SQ love the 10 because of the huge envelope, but that damned #2 just messes with my mind. Once in contact with the 10, the envelope almost allows you to get up, take a ****, heat up your Cappriattis, stretch, and finish up your 100k onload on 20NE. The 135 has only a few quirks, but in the end I am more comfortable and stable behind it.

Knowing Freddy is key. Are you 500k or 700k? That question alone makes a HUGE difference in how you AR. With a light jet against a 135 you can, once stable, use just the inboards to control your position. I use the "potatoe" technique. I make a power input, count to "4 potatoe" and then take half out. Every power input is actually going to be three; the initial input, the half back out/in, and the final position once you stabalize. A heavy jet against a 10, with a contact speed of 275 (vs the 135 contact speed of 252) can be a ball buster. Momentum is not your friend at that point. If you are not 3 steps ahead of the jet (ie vert and horz position, and power) you'll end up hunting for that sweet spot. The more you AR the more you'll actually "see" the movement before it happens. It sounds weird, but the best guys I've seen AR are already making corrections before the jet has changed positions.

My advice in a nutshell: pick an AR song and sing it in your head, chew gum, wiggle your fingers and your toes, realize that no matter how much the tanker ****es you off by being "unstable" they have the gas you need, accept minor deviations, fix the vertical (the 30 degree line) first, tell the tanker you're "moving" if you get close to the limits, be stable in pre-contact, if you need a break have the copilot fly in pre-contact, trim the jet as you get gas (a good click of trim/10k of gas is a good start), and know that you are doing someting that most "sane" people would NEVER dream of doing!

cheers!

 

Flying Buddha, I always removed the armor over the kick window to let my outside foot dangle/relax a little; Gum is key; the pinky behind the stick, instead of in front, always ensured you would not put too much pressure on it (or grasping just the top of the stick works too, although it makes it harder to hit the PTT).

Good explanation on the C-17, most jets you can trim mechanically and the trim stays, the C-17 trys to adjust the trim to where it thinks you want it... however, it is possible to set it and forget and barely touch the stick, but it takes most people a long time to figure it out (think of learning to stand on a beach ball while juggling)

I always got in the habit of lifting my hands of the throttles (some guys put their hand in their lap, which is poor technique for a BA), just to ensure I won't be tempted to mess with them until I need to. I always thought the human brain thinks better in 2D rather than 3D, so if you can eliminate one dimension (thrust), you can better control the other 2, and then periodically adjust the thrust... You can get so good that you can set the throttles with 2 engine anti-ices on and turn them off to move forward and turn all 4 on to move back... or center the stick and streamline yourself and move forward, and shack the stick around to move back, pretty neat, but easy if you can control in 2D only...

Boom limits? lost art in the C-17s, in 10 years of flying, saw it once in my first year... You bring it up and you get strange looks. Most copilots hit "tripple limits" all the time.

 

If you're concerned about the tanker platform just realize that the tanker pilot is probably making power corrections to stay within Q1 tolerance for AR airspeed. If you want the tanker to leave the power alone just tell them to let the plane accelerate during the offload. With the autopilot on the the pitch should be constant (altitude hold) and roll is controlled by the pilot. Rate of roll into a bank has always been a question. Do you want 3 degrees/second? Faster? Slower? Without touching power the 135 will accelerate from on speed to +25 KIAS during a 100k offload. We're just trying to help the receiver out, so let us know what you want!

 

As someone who has AR'ed in both a heavies and fighters I can tell you getting on the boom in the B-1 was way more challenging then in the Viper. When u can stare at the boom in front of you (B-1), your natural instinct is to do the boomers job for him. Unfortunatly he's trying to do his job also. But once on the tit it was quite easy to stay on. Much easier to fall off in the Viper.

 

Tanker guys - which type airframe do you see normally has the toughest time with AR? I heard A-10's are tough on you guys for airspeed. Any truth?

 

All true Waldo11.

A-10s and C-130s are especially hard to refuel due to the slow airspeed requiements, limited bank angles, over taking rendezvous, low altitudes, high deck angles by the tanker due to slat/flaps being needed, and required toboggan maneuvers.

A-10 guys are usually pretty good at getting on the boom, but they have the same problem that you had with the B-1, they see the boom and don't have afterburner, hahaha. A-10s are the only airplane that I know of that starts high in the envelope, and dives down to the contact position so they have enough smash to punch through the bow wave.

C-130s, in my opinion, are probably the hardest because they are power limited and I've always had to toboggan in order to keep them on the boom. When you toboggan, keeping the speed constant is more difficult. But when you are starting the AR at low altitudes as we do over the mountains in the middle east, terrain and all the bad things associated with low altitude becomes a big issue. Typically the planners find safe areas to do this type of AR ..... usually.

The "spec ops" tanker guys would probably agree that the AC-130s are the toughest due to additional requirements which won't be mentioned.