Notices
Military Military Aviation

Recency of Flying

Old 10-25-2009, 05:10 AM
  #1  
On Reserve
Thread Starter
 
EMKFlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 757 FO
Posts: 19
Default Recency of Flying

Hello, I think I need some professional advice. I am currently a Major O-4 at my 20 year point (prior Army Warrant Officer.) I am now getting ready to pin on LTC O-5, however I was just offered a pretty good civilian flying job. The issue I am working is that, I still enjoy the Air Force, however next year I am being told that I will definitely go to a "Desk Job" for the next 4 years. So I have a couple of questions here:

1. If I go sit the desk job, will I have any chance of getting a flying/airline job after 4 years sitting behind a desk? (I currently have about 5500 hours C-17 and helicopter time, ATP, yada yada yada)
2. If I did stay on with the Air Force, is there anyway of maintaining any currency so I can show some recency of flying?
3. or would it be best to take the civilian flying job I was offered and stay on the flightdeck?

Thanks for any insights anyone may have here.
EMKFlyer is offline  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:48 PM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,068
Default

Interesting question and I hope to see answers from some folks who know.

Here's my question, what is preventing you from staying in the cockpit? I'm a 17 guy too, and we're finding it damn near impossible to send anyone to staff. And I know a lot who want to go. I find it difficult to belief you'd "have" to go to a desk if you told AFPC you wanted another flying assignment. Where are they trying to send you?

Just curious more than anything else.
Sputnik is offline  
Old 10-25-2009, 01:38 PM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Clue32's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 821
Default

A couple of questions came to mind rather quickly.

1. What is the likely hood that a job of a similar caliber will present itself in the next 3-4 years?
2. What is preventing you from taking the job, seeing if you like it better than the AF, and then coming back off of retirement if the civilian world isn't as good as the AF?
3. Why not take the civilian job and then get a Guard job?
4. Have you ever been happy with a staff job far away from the flight line, or even in the school house learning "officer stuff" rather than "flying stuff?"

Spend an hour looking at the various job requirements. A lot want "recency of flight experience." The numbers vary but what I've seen is 100 hours in the last 6-12 months. I'd hate to have to buy 100 hours in a C-172 for a job flying swept wing jets. Your four years on staff could turn into 5-10 more years in the service because you take a flying job to get back into the cockpit, then O-6 starts knocking on the door.

I'm biased because I'm picking up my ETS orders from the transition office tomorrow. I am, however, keeping the option of signing back up in my back pocket.
Clue32 is offline  
Old 10-25-2009, 03:28 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Razor's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 690
Default

Originally Posted by EMKFlyer View Post
I still enjoy the Air Force
I think that's your answer right there. Stay in and keep doing what you enjoy. It's important, satisfying work. I retired a couple of years ago as an O-4 and now do the airline thing. My time in the USAF was much more fun and rewarding but now I have a lot of time at home with the family. Stay in the Air Force, there will be a job outside for you later. Good luck!
Razor is offline  
Old 10-25-2009, 04:17 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
KC10 FATboy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,094
Default

EMKFlyer:

I've been in a similar situation to yours. My advice is, stay in the Air Force if you love it. For me, I got to a point where the USAF was driving me crazy, so I left and went civilian.

A military friend of mine was in your exact situation. He was out of the cockpit for several years, but had a lot of time. CAL didn't want to hire him because of his recency issue. But when they found out that he took an ATP checkride the month before, they hired him.

You can always go rent a plane with an instructor and get some recency. Having a couple of thousand heavy military hours is priceless. They will be looking for guys like you.
KC10 FATboy is offline  
Old 10-25-2009, 04:17 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SabreDriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: The Right One
Posts: 588
Default

Originally Posted by EMKFlyer View Post
Hello, I think I need some professional advice. I am currently a Major O-4 at my 20 year point (prior Army Warrant Officer.) I am now getting ready to pin on LTC O-5, however I was just offered a pretty good civilian flying job. The issue I am working is that, I still enjoy the Air Force, however next year I am being told that I will definitely go to a "Desk Job" for the next 4 years. So I have a couple of questions here:

1. If I go sit the desk job, will I have any chance of getting a flying/airline job after 4 years sitting behind a desk? (I currently have about 5500 hours C-17 and helicopter time, ATP, yada yada yada)
2. If I did stay on with the Air Force, is there anyway of maintaining any currency so I can show some recency of flying?
3. or would it be best to take the civilian flying job I was offered and stay on the flightdeck?

Thanks for any insights anyone may have here.
Having retired from active duty a few years ago, I walked through your decision almost exactly, twice. Could have retired in 2002 with 23 years, but stayed until 2007. For historical perspective, I had to make my decision in June of 2001 (that ought to set the reference) I decided to stay, mainly because I was still having fun and I expected to keep flying.

Every person I respected in the service, almost without exception, told me the same thing, "when it is time to go, you'll know." They were right. When it was time to go, I knew. When the time came, I retired and fell into a good flying job, worked out for me, but your milage may vary. Stability is a big variable out in the big cold cruel world, and I was on active duty long enough to become "instituionalized" as Red would say, but I got lucky.

Also, run the numbers, it is pretty straight forward to calculate what the difference in your retirement will be in any given retirement month going forward. As far as my retirement check is concerned, those last few years were very significant. Look at O-4 @ 20 through O-5 @ 26 with assumptions for COLA raises for the next 5 years, let's say 2.5%/yr. The difference will astound you. The retired pay scale between 20-30 years is not linear, it is an exponential curve. Money is not everything, but it does factor in. You must make an informed decision. You can PM me for details.

Fly Safe, Thank you for your service! See you round the campus...

SD
SabreDriver is offline  
Old 10-26-2009, 03:23 AM
  #7  
On Reserve
Thread Starter
 
EMKFlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 757 FO
Posts: 19
Default Recency of experience

I'd like to thank everyone for the insight and advice. I got up at 4:30 this morning laying in bed thinking about all this.

To answer Sputnik, unfortunately I am an IDE select, so I have to go to Mawell or other IDE school for a year. From what I understand, almost for sure heading to a desk job for 3 years after that.

Sabre. You nailed it. That is the exact math I have been running. For staying an additional 5 years the retirment pay jumps by $1650 per month at todays dollar. However, money is not everything. It is difficult to put a price on moving the family 3 times in the next 5 years, deployments to Iraq and Afghan, etc.

I do enjoy what I do now, ADO and line IP/EP. However, I guess I am looking for some insight on the recency of experience issue. Will my 5500 hours of C-17, B-757, Helo, and ATP be enough to get a civilian employer to pick me up after not flying for 4 years? I guess that is the million dollar question. Literally!!

Again, thanks so much. Please keep the insight flowing.
EMKFlyer is offline  
Old 10-26-2009, 08:16 AM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,068
Default

Not often you hear "unfortunately" and "IDE select" in same line. Realize it ain't a perfect situation for you, but still need to offer congrats. That said, being a "select" doesn't mean you have to go, you can decline. Not saying it's a good idea but it's certainly something you can do if you choose. If you're worried about being punished for it, find a job first (flying AMLO), then decline school.

To me it sounds like you want to stay in, and I think if you do you'll find a way to make it happen. You can't know if the airlines will hire, but you can know your pension will be a hell of a lot higher.

I also think it's possible to go from school to flying. I've known guys who've done it in past and assuming rated manning stays as bad as it is, you may not have a choice. You can also go to USAFA as an AOC, counts as school, get a masters, and get to fly. There are ways.

Having said that, do you have a short tour? With your Army time you have to be at top of list for 365, and if you aren't interested....that is something to think about. I've also noticed a propensity for the bright and shiny guys to depart school for 365s too.
Sputnik is offline  
Old 10-28-2009, 02:21 PM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SabreDriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: The Right One
Posts: 588
Default

Originally Posted by EMKFlyer View Post

Sabre. You nailed it. That is the exact math I have been running. For staying an additional 5 years the retirment pay jumps by $1650 per month at todays dollar. However, money is not everything. It is difficult to put a price on moving the family 3 times in the next 5 years, deployments to Iraq and Afghan, etc.

I do enjoy what I do now, ADO and line IP/EP. However, I guess I am looking for some insight on the recency of experience issue. Will my 5500 hours of C-17, B-757, Helo, and ATP be enough to get a civilian employer to pick me up after not flying for 4 years? I guess that is the million dollar question. Literally!!

Again, thanks so much. Please keep the insight flowing.
Oh, so true. There are a lot of things that money cannot buy, but some can be rented... Planes in particular

I think every employer I would consider working for had/has a recency requirement in their app process But, just like investing, past performance does not garn-tee future results. You would be amazed at how marketable your current skill set is, now or later, but with zero flight time in 4 years, there will be some awkward(sp) moments in the interview process. Every employer will understand completely what you were doing, they will just want to see some recent flight time (even in a 150), current medical etc.

Call Albief15 and talk to him about your situation. Emerald Coast Interview Consulting

He is the best, tell him the Navy guys in Pensacola sent you, then duck

Fly Safe
SD
SabreDriver is offline  
Old 10-28-2009, 04:46 PM
  #10  
Line Holder
 
HueyHerc's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: L-382, Left/Right
Posts: 36
Default

There is plenty of flying to be done as a Lt Col if you still enjoy the Air Force. Don't rule out Ops Officer and Commander jobs after IDE. While they may not allow for a lot of flying, you will be qualified and you continue to improve your retirement position as well.

Good Luck!

HH
HueyHerc is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
wearinwings
Foreign
6
02-11-2009 07:07 PM
Kubota
Regional
11
02-09-2009 01:26 PM
joel payne
Pilot Health
1
02-05-2009 07:53 PM
Blackbird
Regional
145
01-28-2009 01:39 PM
embflieger
Foreign
8
12-09-2008 07:11 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices