Ex-Airforce Pilot
01-28-2007, 06:44 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 840
Originally Posted by Duke
WLDPLT,
Thanks for the words. I've got my undergrad in Aviation from EKU and my MAS from ERAU in Aeronautics and Avn/Aerospace Mgmt. I've also been to the AF advanced instrument school, which I think would look good on a resume as well.
No, not really. I really don't have any of my peers that have separated and gone to the airlines. I don't know why....maybe that's because the bonus was still around and there were a lot of takers for the guys that are a couple years my senior. I do have some buds that are in the guard though and I have thought about that option to help me make the civilian transition and give me more time to start networking with guys in the majors. I'm sure the guard is loaded with guys that also fly with the airlines. I am starting to see more of my peers separating (since the bonus is now only 5 yrs and will likely be gone next year) so I think as the years pass I will know more guys flying for the airlines.
Or maybe I should just try to suck it up for 10 more years? It seems like everything that I'm reading indicates the salaries keep going lower. Looking at the SWA pay charts, it looks like it would be about a 75K a year pay cut for the first few years.....but in the long run, after about 4-5 years, I would be back where I'm at now and start making more around the 6 year point.
Decisions, Decisions. If anyone else has been in the same situation and has any lessons learned to pass along, I'm all ears. Cheers!
Duke
Thanks for the words. I've got my undergrad in Aviation from EKU and my MAS from ERAU in Aeronautics and Avn/Aerospace Mgmt. I've also been to the AF advanced instrument school, which I think would look good on a resume as well.
No, not really. I really don't have any of my peers that have separated and gone to the airlines. I don't know why....maybe that's because the bonus was still around and there were a lot of takers for the guys that are a couple years my senior. I do have some buds that are in the guard though and I have thought about that option to help me make the civilian transition and give me more time to start networking with guys in the majors. I'm sure the guard is loaded with guys that also fly with the airlines. I am starting to see more of my peers separating (since the bonus is now only 5 yrs and will likely be gone next year) so I think as the years pass I will know more guys flying for the airlines.
Or maybe I should just try to suck it up for 10 more years? It seems like everything that I'm reading indicates the salaries keep going lower. Looking at the SWA pay charts, it looks like it would be about a 75K a year pay cut for the first few years.....but in the long run, after about 4-5 years, I would be back where I'm at now and start making more around the 6 year point.
Decisions, Decisions. If anyone else has been in the same situation and has any lessons learned to pass along, I'm all ears. Cheers!
Duke
Duke,
I was a GS13 with special salary rate (pilot) at my reserve unit. About year 3 at CAL to equal the pay. You should find a guard/reserve job. This will make up the close to the difference in your pay. Close anyway. SWA you will probably be back to = pay at 2nd year. Don't sweat the change. You can fly mil and civ and make a helluva lot money. I am very junior at CAL. I flew 3 days in Dec (had Christmas on call but home) and 6 days so far in Jan. Sitting at home watching the kids grow up. Good luck, send me a PM and we can exchange emails. Maybe we can find you an appropriate reserve/guard unit. Cheers.
01-28-2007, 09:15 AM
#73
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 F/O
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by Boogie Nights
I can't say I know what it is like to be a Viper driver, but I have felt your deployment pain. I spent 5 years 5 days overseas (deployed) out of 8.5 years of flying tankers. I even had the opportunity to have some flak flung my way in combat. I joined the ANG. What a difference! Instead of Bahrain for 270 days it was Istres, Geilenkirchen, Iceland, Turkey, and many others. My ANG unit got BRAC'd (Predatored). I am now in the AF Reserves. This unit seems great. I have to say I honestly love serving my country and being the best Tanker guy I can be.
(I met the guy who was in that tent with you, and who didn't make it)(I hope they executed that bastard who flung the grenade)
All that said I just got my 1st Airline job and am currently in training with a major airline. I am excited and looking forward to flying brand new 737's
All that said, don't leave if you do not, can not, leave the fighter behind.
There was an ex Viper driver in my guard unit. He was sorry he left and raised heaven and earth to get back into it. He finally got his Viper back.
The good news....
I got out of active duty just as I hit the fast track. I left to take care of ill parents. I felt sure of O5, a DO slot maybe even SQCC. Family came first. My folks both past. One door closes, another opens. I met my wife and have never been happier. I have a happy wife, kids next year, two dogs, and a home by the beach in CA. I do not have to worry about being sent back to Grand Forks, or in your case Cannon or Kunsan.
I have the best of both worlds. I can serve my country when I want or need to with the Reserve, (the Airline must give you military leave) and have a job flying an aircraft younger than me (KC-135 hit 50 last year) the 737's have new plane smell. There is a Viper patch wearer in my class and he seems happy too.
Big picture sow your oats. Don't leave the Viper or the Air Force if you are not ready. You have to be happy to make your family happy.
If you do decide to become an Airline guy. Be prepared for culture shock. The Airline world was much different than I prepared myself for. Training is very focused and intensive. You have to get your resume out there.
I interviewed with Alaska, SWA, AirTran, and UPS. I was offered two jobs.
It took a year to get those interviews, so start in advance of leaving active duty. I recommend going to job fairs like AIRINC, OBAP, and women in aviation. I am not black or a woman, but there were only a couple of hundred people at those job fairs rather than a couple of thousand at AIRINC. All the employers were there. There were lots of other white guys at both events. I ended up networking and getting a job through OBAP. I plan on being a big sponsor of OBAP if I get the opportunity. I appreciate all the help they provided.
The Airline world seems kind of cold. In my 737 type class (for SWA) there was a guy with 18 years at Independence airlines (15,000 hours) only to be out on the street.
Joining a union. I still don't get this. In the military we all pulled the same direction (for the most part). Management does not like the union and the union hates management, it seems like a losing strategy. I will not be a scab (no future in it), so I hope management and the union can get along.
Good luck, see if you can get in with a Guard or Reserve unit, as well as pursue the Airlines.
Take Care
Fly the plane first
Boogie
(I met the guy who was in that tent with you, and who didn't make it)(I hope they executed that bastard who flung the grenade)
All that said I just got my 1st Airline job and am currently in training with a major airline. I am excited and looking forward to flying brand new 737's
All that said, don't leave if you do not, can not, leave the fighter behind.
There was an ex Viper driver in my guard unit. He was sorry he left and raised heaven and earth to get back into it. He finally got his Viper back.
The good news....
I got out of active duty just as I hit the fast track. I left to take care of ill parents. I felt sure of O5, a DO slot maybe even SQCC. Family came first. My folks both past. One door closes, another opens. I met my wife and have never been happier. I have a happy wife, kids next year, two dogs, and a home by the beach in CA. I do not have to worry about being sent back to Grand Forks, or in your case Cannon or Kunsan.
I have the best of both worlds. I can serve my country when I want or need to with the Reserve, (the Airline must give you military leave) and have a job flying an aircraft younger than me (KC-135 hit 50 last year) the 737's have new plane smell. There is a Viper patch wearer in my class and he seems happy too.
Big picture sow your oats. Don't leave the Viper or the Air Force if you are not ready. You have to be happy to make your family happy.
If you do decide to become an Airline guy. Be prepared for culture shock. The Airline world was much different than I prepared myself for. Training is very focused and intensive. You have to get your resume out there.
I interviewed with Alaska, SWA, AirTran, and UPS. I was offered two jobs.
It took a year to get those interviews, so start in advance of leaving active duty. I recommend going to job fairs like AIRINC, OBAP, and women in aviation. I am not black or a woman, but there were only a couple of hundred people at those job fairs rather than a couple of thousand at AIRINC. All the employers were there. There were lots of other white guys at both events. I ended up networking and getting a job through OBAP. I plan on being a big sponsor of OBAP if I get the opportunity. I appreciate all the help they provided.
The Airline world seems kind of cold. In my 737 type class (for SWA) there was a guy with 18 years at Independence airlines (15,000 hours) only to be out on the street.
Joining a union. I still don't get this. In the military we all pulled the same direction (for the most part). Management does not like the union and the union hates management, it seems like a losing strategy. I will not be a scab (no future in it), so I hope management and the union can get along.
Good luck, see if you can get in with a Guard or Reserve unit, as well as pursue the Airlines.
Take Care
Fly the plane first
Boogie
Great words - I was fortunate enough to serve my country for 22 years (most of it flying the Viper) and still miss it (7 years ago). If you're not ready to leave it behind then don't. All the pain of all the other things goes away when you strap on the jet. That goes for all my Heavy Driver comrades (BUFFs, Tankers, Transport) - the culture you have is not there on the outside. Even the best culture (SWA) does not carry over because you fly with a different person every trip and a different crew in back and rarely will you see them again. Make sure you can still take care of your family and enjoy what you're doing now - you'll never get a chance to do it again.
01-28-2007, 09:28 AM
#74
China Visa Applicant
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Midfield downwind
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by ExDeltaPilot
That goes for all my Heavy Driver comrades (BUFFs, Tankers, Transport) - the culture you have is not there on the outside. Even the best culture (SWA) does not carry over because you fly with a different person every trip and a different crew in back and rarely will you see them again. Make sure you can still take care of your family and enjoy what you're doing now - you'll never get a chance to do it again.
It all depends on what matters to you.
02-25-2007, 12:51 AM
#75
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: F-16
Posts: 46
Hey Furball,
Good to see ya on-line.
I jump from the AD to the 419th right here at Hill in June.
Good times at Spangladesh and Luke huh (87 of the original 433 bottles of Auslese/Spatelese left. Two got broke in the move, criminal) .
15 years AD and ANGEL had enough, so we're packing it up for the great unkown. Gut check but one I'm convinced is worth it.
One a Hawk...,
Tonka
Good to see ya on-line.
I jump from the AD to the 419th right here at Hill in June.
Good times at Spangladesh and Luke huh (87 of the original 433 bottles of Auslese/Spatelese left. Two got broke in the move, criminal) .
15 years AD and ANGEL had enough, so we're packing it up for the great unkown. Gut check but one I'm convinced is worth it.
One a Hawk...,
Tonka
02-25-2007, 12:58 AM
#76
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: F-16
Posts: 46
Gents,
One thing that didn't get mentioned earlier is the frau's take/influence on things.
11 moves and Maxwell AFB in the tea leaves, two school age daughters and a local reserve job offer, improving airline picture, tough to justify dragging the family to yet another "garden spot".
BL: If you want to keep her around when your frau says enough, well that was all I needed to hear.
It also helps the decision if she is bringing home decent cash. So what if it's one dollar at a time
One thing that didn't get mentioned earlier is the frau's take/influence on things.
11 moves and Maxwell AFB in the tea leaves, two school age daughters and a local reserve job offer, improving airline picture, tough to justify dragging the family to yet another "garden spot".
BL: If you want to keep her around when your frau says enough, well that was all I needed to hear.
It also helps the decision if she is bringing home decent cash. So what if it's one dollar at a time
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