block30

HA! I've heard every bleeding heart excuse about how great CAP is. Been there, done that, don't buy it.

Yes CAP does undercut legitimate businesses. Yes CAP is government subsidized. Period. If US Customs is a government funded flying club, screw them too.

I can't believe how pilots come on here and ----- about being undercut by such and such pilot group and go on to condone the BFRs and Sunday afternoon flying that is done by CAP.

Thanks for undercutting professionals' jobs.

Oh, it costs money to rent planes? Sure, when mother government isn't greasing the path for you. I have no sympathy.

Typhoonpilot

Block30, you're so far off base it isn't even worth replying to you. Nothing anybody says will dissuade your from your opinion. You're certainly welcome to it, but it's just wrong on so many levels.

CAP is a volunteer civilian organization. As such it has many issues, not the least of which is bureacracy. That said, it can be very rewarding to be involved in the organization. It has a lot to offer to individuals who are members and to the community that it serves. One must be willing to donate time, effort, and money in order to derive benefits from being a member though. It also helps to have loads of patience.

To the original poster, try to visit a couple of the squadrons in your area. Good advice has been given to find a Senior squadron with a corporate aircraft. If you're interested in the cadet program then a Composite Squadron would be okay as well. The key thing though is that the squadron has a corporate aircraft. CAP owns over 500 aircraft so it shouldn't be too difficult to find a squadron that has one. Each squadron has it's own unique character so try to find one that you think will fit.

It will take months or even a year+ in order to join the squadron and get fully checked out to start participating in missions. As a soon to be CFI you certainly have something to offer to the squadron.

I grew up in California and was a member of various squadrons in that state for over 15 years. In the end I was on wing staff and was a check pilot. As such I had a lot of flying opportunies come my way. It ranged from doing cadet orientation flights; to flying search and rescue missions; flying the press on publicity flights; to shuttling wing staff around on official business. By far the most rewarding, and most serious, is search and rescue flying.

My involvement in CAP has had a profound effect on my career. I met the person who led me to choose San Jose State University through CAP. While at San Jose State I met a person in CAP who gave me a job as a flight instructor and later made sure I got a job at a commuter in California after graduation.

CAP saves the lives of an average of 100 people in the USA every year. They offer a range of services to State and Federal agencies at a fraction of the cost of a government organization, saving the tax payer significant money. They provide a place for young people interested in aviation or the military a chance to experience it first hand.

You'll hear the usual people chime in about CAP pilots are morons who can't fly; who cut them off in the pattern; who look stupid in a military uniform; etc; etc; Some of it is true. There are some real horse's behinds in the CAP, but if you're really interested give it a try.




Typhoonpilot

atpwannabe

Civil Air Patrol is a great organization. Get invovled in the Senior Squadron as someone suggested and you may possibly be able to build more time from that perspective. You'll be involved in Orientation and Patrol flights. Not sure what the frequency of the those flights would be in your area, but down here in SE Florida, they are more frequent.....well, at least when I was involved way back when.



atp

block30

You replied.

I was actively involved in a squadron, visited many more, and I know what CAP is and in theory should be. Further I know what CAP should not be.

I am sick and tired of CAP being treated as an alternative to legitimate businesses; FBOs are not the evil empire. Speaking from personal experience, this is a driving reason behind Senior member involvement (other than cadets' parents).

Quite honestly life and limb should remain entrusted to the professionals. I've seen so much BS from the low to high levels of the organization hold up real world missions that I want to puke.

For these reasons CAP is not what it should be.

Hey-I like the cadets. God bless them, truly. Heck, I'd have half a mind to stick around just to see them develop... However, I can't justify in my mind the rest of the organization especially for the above reasons.

SaltyDog

block30,
Sorry you had a bad deal. The govt subsidized part: I Was (govt subsidized) and recalled to active duty as a DOD Liaison during Hurricane Katrina. The CAP folks flew missions that we were using Navy P-3's for until they got on scene. The CAP guys were sleeping under a wing at night and flew dozens of sorties saving the taxpayers the expense of running P-3's and less available E-2's for the type missions we were tasked to provide. They relieved the DOD of having to provide many helicopters as well. Our budget costs for a Navy P-3 was on the order of $11,000 per flight hour, whereas the CAP birds were at $130 per flight hour. The CAP Airplanes that the DOD tasked during Katrina literally paid for themselves (at taxpayer expense) during that one event alone. The National Guard routinely uses CAP for missions becuase it is more cost effective in the states.
A huge bargain for the taxpayer and really us in DOD to leave our hardware assets available for DOD missions instead. The CAP folks were tremendous, all volunteers. The teams we dealt with at the DOD level from top to bottom were very professional. Guess CAP only sent the A Teams <g>
Regarding SAR, often times in some of the states, the local Sheriff has no air assets, but the CAP Wing does. I'm not a CAP person, but from a DOD perspective, they are a bargain for DOD relief in any case.
Also, the USAF folks said CAP was pretty fertile recruiting grounds.
YMMV

runge

One thing that I will say about the CAP is that it can be incredibly hit or miss from squadron to squadron, in my experience. I'm not very active at the moment, but I've spent some time with 3 different units in two states.

One was awesome, very mission-oriented, but still helped members out a lot with pursuing ratings and personal proficiency training. They spent some time with cadets, and had a lot of ground activities for people who were interested, and still managed to fly a lot of missions. It was a pretty no-nonsense crowd and probably what most people expect out of the CAP.

Another was basically a subsidized flying club, hardly ever flew any missions or training aside from personal ratings, didn't do much with cadets, and largely just seemed to enjoy sitting around in uniforms, telling GA war stories and drinking beer if at all possible. In between telling GA war stories, they did a lot of ground training and self promotion. When I came along, anxious to fly missions and be involved as a pilot, they weren't very interested. This particular group seemed like a lot of 4-F's and Section 8's to me. People who wanted to be in the military but couldn't for some reason, and now are content to parade around in AF uniforms and play the part.

The third, which I'm currently working my way into, has no cadets, doesn't prioritize personal training at all, and, as they see it, exists solely to fly missions, which is fine by me. They do their share of the ground stuff and aerospace-hype work, but emphasis is on being johnny-on-the-spot for uncle sam.

All I'm trying to say is that the CAP can vary a lot from one place to another. So it's understandable to me that someone who's only spent time around one squadron might say it's just a bunch of bums (Some squadrons don't even have an airplane to fly), whereas someone else who's only seen a different squadron wouldn't agree at all.

I think it's a great organization to be involved in, if you can find a squadron that's a good fit for you. But if there are a lot of squadrons near you, shop around before you commit yourself to being involved in a way that does not interest you.

block30

I will second the observation that CAP is squadron specific. If a person does get involved, you'll probably want to "shop around."

I can understand that CAP is cheap, but I would think that Highway Patrol 182s and the like would be a better channel for all that $$. A greater return on investment.

USMCFDX

In Indiana the troopers have lost airplanes and we fly them around. I would say that is actually a better return on investment. No training required to make a trooper a pilot. CAP pilot flying, so one more trooper on the road in his car for the public.

SaltyDog

CAP is a Federal program, used extensively in the DOD contingency plans as a cheap alternative to using more expensive DOD assets for domestic operations. i.e. SAR, etc. reread my previous post on this rthread. If you have ever dealt with federal/DOD Budgets, the numbers quickly demnstrate that all the CAP equipment used in Katrina alone paid for themselves in savings by removing the need for DOD assetts that are extraordinarily more expensive. Nothing stops any state legislature from purchasing aircraft for local needs, but this is a wise use of our taxdollars for Federal use.
You can never make the convincing argument to any decisionmaker with your arguments. The dollars are hard to get, and saving them in this manner is a bargain for DOD by utilizing CAP assets when possible.
Am not arguing the challenges of some units good and some are inadequate, but don't think that a smart FBO cannot compete with the regulations required by CAP flight ops.