Winged Wheeler

Some of you know this fight intimately--I do not. I would, however, like to see us win. I'd like some feedback on the following idea.

What if we bought the opium from the growers? Contracts to deliver the crop for the market price. The growers get legal title to the land, hard currency, and a stake in the success of the government. The local government gets a small cut of the contract price--say 10% for infrastructure and security.

I could develop this at length, but you get the idea. It couldn't be more expensive than what we are doing now.

What do you think?

WW

ChinookDriver47

What you are proposing, basically becoming the infrastructure, is something that has been tried before, by Russia. It didn't work. Why? Because all they did was set the market price and the growers let the Black Market drive it up from there. It is black label economics, but still economics.

There is no way to enforce the growers to sell to the U.S. unless, honestly, unless it was at gunpoint; and our current political regime simply wouldn't let that happen.

I like the idea, and yes, it would be cheaper, but no one ever said that acting in the country's best interest and doing the right thing was ever the same, or cheap.

golfandfly

Chinook, I am not sure we are doing the right thing in Afghanistan. I am not sure we have a plan. I see a never ending abyss that can never be won. I am military and do as I am told, but I honestly don't think we can solve the problems in Afghanistan or Iraq. It is beyond our comprehension why these people don't want to live as we do. There are many factions and they have hated each other for thousands of years. I don't think we can solve their problems. Maybe we aren't acting in their best interests?

That said, we are knee deep in the situation now. I don't think we can leave anytime soon. I think we will be having this same conversation in 2-3 years. These two wars are tapping our military and our national budget. We just can't afford to keep this many troops deployed for too long. But, if we leave now it will be a total mess. Real problem huh?

rickair7777

Despite many centuries of no change, I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel in Afghanistan, and many other similar places...

We now have a viable global communication network (internet, cell phones, etc). Most of these people simply don't know what they don't know...a little exposure to the rest of the world will probably get them thinking and we can help the process along in some cases by stabilizing what we can and encouraging education and open political processes.

In some of the worst places it might take more than one generation though...

UAL T38 Phlyer

I'll second Rickair's sentiments. The anarchy and chaos of Afghanistan is due to the endemic poverty...it's a rough-scrabble place, so survival has always taken the majority of the people's energy. Look throughout history, and where resources and food are plentiful, or at least adequate, generally, those peoples develop into organized societies who accomplish things for the greater good.

BUT: to change a couple of millenia of institutionalized poverty, which begets the mindset of "My family and me first," which leads to tribal loyalty and corruption, will require at least one, if not two or three, generations that are raised in a semi-stable Afghanistan, where they see consistent and positive results of working with the West. Education for the current generation should lead to better education for the next generation.

And internet toys, iPods, Wii, etc, are actually probably pretty good weapons in the war against extremism. Not for today's fight...for 15-20 years from now.

We've been in Korea for over 57 years. The reasons are different, but I think that is the road we are headed down.

EP11

Okay, so we buy the opium from the growers for a bit. What do you propose we do with the product? Are we really doing anything to help out the Afghanis other than putting our finger in a massive dike? Is there a long term platform of economic promise built into this idea. Let's just say we are able to buy the opium, burn it at the point of transaction, hand over the currency, pay off the locals...rinse and repeat. Where is this going over the long term? I don't see this as something that will get this country what they need...INFRASTRUCTURE.

I mean really, I have flown over this place hundreds of times and there is nothing connecting this country. Huts here, town there, mountains everywhere. This country is a serious SIM City nightmare and I don't care how prevalent the internet, cell phones or satellite become, without a decent infrastructure this place will remain firmly planted where it has been for centuries on end.

I offer no solutions, only to shoot holes in your thoughts. But I do think that the immortal Sim Kinison had it right, "We have deserts in America, we just don't live in them!" Good luck!

CheyDogFlies

Military guys,

I recommend you/we read some books that describe what the other side thinks on this subject. That side believes that it will take many many generations to kick the US out of muslim territory. They are willing to wait. They expect to wait. They expect their great great grandchildren to be at war every day of their lives. Does the US populous know or understand this mindset? No, IMO.

Try "Imperial Hubris" or "Through Our Enemies' Eyes" (same CIA author--I forget the name), or a book by a westerner who has actually lived several decades in the region. I've got at least a half-dozen of these kind of books in my library. You may be stunned to find out that US foreign policy (towards Israel and the muslim world) is what drives the other side--not necessarily poverty, etc.