UPTme

A considerable percentage of guys in my UPT class are wanting to go AFSOC.

Hell, I'm a Reservist and I'd damn well take a 6 month MC-12 assignment en route to my FTU.

WAFP

the C-5 IP pipeline is pretty backed up. most prior airframe guys, still take 2-3 years to upgrade. it hasn't helped that i did a non-flying deployment 9 months after getting to Fred. i screamed through my AC upgrade and then quickly found myself at command post where i've flown two trips in 6 months.

but, i quite possibly, ****ed some people off...you never know.

that was the word on the street. i'll give the 12th a call and get a better idea. thanks

call it youthful ignorance, but i thought that it would be rare to see rated guys get yanked out of the cockpit for the UAV gig. this assignment will take me up to my commitment, so we'll see.


thanks to everyone for the advice, rants, comments and words of wisdom. "Needs of the Air Force" here I come!

MalteseX

It may boil down to a matter of luck (bad, in your view) and timing. There may be people getting extended, etc. If you look at their records, etc, it may be that you are merely the "fit" for the current moment. If you were deployed, sick, in school, etc. then someone else may have "fit" into the GH assignment. Maybe the assignments guy just picked your name at random and you fit---we'll never know because nobody will say.

Having been a career AF guy and been involved in promotion boards and assignments, I can let you know there is a "Halo effect" and a reverse "Halo effect".

Based on info from my day, getting an OSA assignment (C-21) as your first assignment is not good. You were only in your MWS for a short period and you didn't upgrade to IP ..... that is CRUCIAL. Your CC should not let this assignment happen unless you are being punished for something none of us know about on here. It is killing your career.
To go from OSA (unless you were the wing cc exec or something like that) to a MWS (and not upgrade to IP and were not wing cc exec etc), you are way behind in the AF. To go to a UAV platform now is going to hurt your career--you NEED to be IP/EP in the C-5 before you go.

Were you an IP in the C-21?

If you go to the GH, you need to upgrade for any and all special quals. YOu need to volunteer for deployments---become the exec to the OG/CC and wing/cc. Get jobs ABOVE squadron and Group level. At least at wing level. Get a safety position at wing level. Do it as soon as you upgrade. Get a master's degree. Go to SOS in residence (or whatever it's called today)

Better yet, do all you can between now and when you leave to try to upgrade or get jobs above the squadron level.

I don't know the current promotion rates/etc. but when I was up for major (O-4), people with your background didn't get promoted---additonally, they did not get good flying assignments after leaving their "bad" assignment. Remember, you are leaving AMC for at least 3 years---coming back will be hard when competing with guys who went to a MWS out of UFT and did 4 or 5 years, upgraded to EP, went to HQ or second MWS, upgraded to IP or became an exec for a GO at HQ. They are the choice for choice assignments.

Best advice for you is to become an exec (wing level) if you cannot get an IP slot before the GH assignment.

If you don't want to get promoted and fly when you return, do all you can to stay in the cockpit to get flight hours. They will be crucial when applying to airlines. When you get back to flying after your GH tour, you should be good on flight times after a year or so, depending on your times now. Hopefully the industry will be in better shape if you choose to leave the AF

Sputnik

Did they tell you where you're going? You know the Big Fork is getting a squadron, right? Great place for an aircraft unable to fly in any level of icing.

I've got a friend who's been in it for years, shoot a PM with specific questions and I'll see what I can find for you.

TBoneF15

His CC likely has no choice in the matter. The days of "saving" good dudes from bad deals are over. There are WAY too many non-flying bad deals around and someone has to go. They just doubled the number of ALO billets. UAVs have grown exponentially. There are a ton of these jobs out there. Add on the 179 and 365 day TDYs to places that smell very bad and it's the rare dude that makes it through unscathed.

You're maybe a bit out of the game. The promotion rate for major hovers around 95-98% and has for many years. The only way you don't get promoted to major is if you are either a total maroon, or have been caught naked in the hot tub with the colonel's 16 yr old daughter.

The reality in the AF these days is that dudes with UAV stink on them will be MORE promotable, MORE likely to get good "career" type jobs later on. UAVs are the latest fad at the 5 sided wind tunnel. It will be looked at as a positive that dudes have UAV experience...in the eyes of the AF in general, not necessarily within the C-5 community. I know many dudes who have volunteered for them specifically because they would be good for their career.

It's a much different AF now than it was even five years ago.

KC10 FATboy

Tbone:

Would you say that someone with UAV stink is more promotable than a MWS IP / EP ?

I'm asking because I really do not know the answer.

I was always told, make sure you get IP in a MWS ... EP or HQ if able. Otherwise, some jobs aren't going to be an option for you.

Riddler

Don't get me wrong, we're all pilots and we all want to fly. But let's face it - there are fewer reasons to pursue a flying job outside of the military. You don't have to look all that far to find plenty of people who would rather be flying any UAV as opposed to being furloughed from a major airline. Hell, I even know plenty of guys with 5-10 years of seniority who would rather deploy to Al Udeid for 120-180 days compared to doing their airline job. Pay and benefits are way better in the USAF.

If you want to stay in and make it a career, the UAV job definitely has more advantages than being a C-5 IP. Let's face it, the C-5 may be on its deathbed... some will get new engines, and a lot more will go to the Guard/Reserve. Being an MWS IP used to be a mandatory square to fill for promotion to O-4. That was yesterday. Today, they still want a certain % of those folks. But the bigger emphasis is on fighting today's war. They absolutely demand another larger % of officers who have a broad baseline of experience, like C-21, C-5, and UAV. In your career, you WILL see either a space or UAV guy as CSAF.

If you still want to pursue the airlines in another 3-5 years, you can. I have a buddy who got into a bit of trouble and he got shipped off to a non-flying craphole job to finish off his 20 years. After being out of the cockpit for about 4 years, he got hired at CAL, and is now hating life on reserve in EWR. If you play your cards right, that could be you in 5 years. Just do a little bit of civilian flying on the side.

Riddler

Riddler

MWS IP/EP opens up a few doors, like Altus (except for C-5 guys) and AMC/A3T, AMC/A3V staff. Being an IP/EP also makes getting requal'd after a staff job a little bit easier. Finally, it may help get a CC or DO job in a similar airlift squadron. So yes, it does have its advantages.

The UAV is a huge growth industry right now. Tons of open jobs, on active duty, guard and reserve. C-5 is definitely not a growing platform.

All else being equal (masters degree, similar OPR stratification, etc.), I find it hard to believe that a promotion board would value an IP with 500 combat hours over an MP with 100 C-5 combat hours and XXX worth of ISR experience. Lots of OPR fodder being in a new and growing aircraft - new systems upgrades, new procedures, new tactical manuals, etc.

So honestly, my opinion is that although being an IP/EP is nice, that NOT being an IP and instead getting UAV experience also has its advantages.

TBoneF15

It depends. If you are going the traditional "perfect" career route to be an operational flying squadron CC, flying ops group CC, flying wing CC, etc., then you will still need to have credibility in an MWS, i.e. have been an IP (plus all of the standard squares filled).

But lets face it, lots of dudes right now don't have that kind of career to look forward to. For fighters, F-15Cs going away to almost none, F-16 squadrons closing down left and right, F-22s stopped at 187, JSF check is in the mail. Not a lot of opportunities for squadron, group, and wing command for dudes in those worlds, regardless of tactical resume. I can't speak to all of the heavy airframes, but I know there certainly is plenty of instability there as well.

But the real answer is that the current fashionable trend to the dudes in DC (DoD and HAF) is the UAV. Right now dudes who get CC jobs in the UAV world are about as promotable as anyone could possibly be, even if they wouldn't have been the traditional fast burners/commanders within their former community. There is a big push to put those kind of dudes in leadership positions across the joint world.

KC10 FATboy

I am completely ignorant on the UAV jobs. But I am wondering, what kind of leadership experience potential do these type of jobs have?

Naturally, it is easier for me to see how an IP, heck even an MP, on a C-5 would have more leadership opportunities and jobs available.

And don't forget, our sister services are using enlisted to fly UAVs. And I think it is 100% fraud, waste, and abuse of funds to put a rated military pilot in the seat of a UAV.