Herc130AV8R

A lot of you who have made the jump to Civ say that ARMS products are enough of a logbook for the airlines but how do they know what is PIC and what is SIC by looking at the ARMS products?? There is no way to differentiate. It shows CP vs. AC time but that doesn't mean PIC. I have a good amount of time as an AC but I wasn't holding the "A" code on the orders because there was another AC with it or an IP onboard. Do they just take all AC (MP) time as PIC?? Thanks

TankerDriver

I guess if you really wanted to be anal, you could have saved all your 781's and made a note on them when you had the A code as AC and then logged them in a civilian logbook or something like Logbook Pro. As copilot, that is obviously all SIC as far as the FAA is concerned. The ARMS product is an official document that proves how much flight time you have, but like you said, it doesn't differentiate the kind of flight time the airlines would like to see.

FlyingGuy

There's no clear cut answer in my opinion in a lot of these military to civilian conversions. If you were in the left seat making all the decisions even though some IP was in the right seat and had the A code due to a squadron policy perhaps I think you are safe in claiming PIC time. The A code system isn't uniformly practiced throughout the service and obviously isn't verifiable. Follow the rules as close as you can but I suggest using the reasonable man theory when possible. I have enough time not to have to worry about the issue and am not in a hiring decision position to know better but if you are a certified a/c and are running the crew I don't think how the flight orders were coded is all that significant after the fact. It would be different if you were a left seater but your unit didn't think you were ready so you always had supervision with you. Again this is my amateur opinion.

T-tail

I think all of us Mil types have asked that question. FDX accepted my solution of subtracting 10% of my MP time off of claimed PIC time. That accounted for proficiency local flying and upgrade training.

TipTip35

T-tail,

if I may ask how many hours (total and PIC) did you have? I've heard some other guys say they used the 90% rule but I'm wondering if it raises eyebrows if a guy with 1100 PIC does that versus someone with 2000+ hours

TipTip35

Also would you all agree that student time on the SARMS can be counted as SIC??

T-tail

Tip,
My Flying history report showed about 4000TT. About 3000 was PIC "MP". I was a 141 type, so I had probably 400 hours of other time from Augmented crews and training flights. I also counted 90% of my "MP other" time to count as PIC. Since I was in command of the Augmented crew. I think I separated the 200 hours under a student time column. I typed out a small EXCEL spreadsheet, showing exactly what adjustments I had made and attached it to my Flying History Report.
I hope this helps. Just whatever you do, be able to explain it to the man.

FlyingGuy

Here is the way I understand it: Student time is not SIC. That should be dual received. However all solo time is PIC even if logged as a student. My source is an article from the AIR inc magazine.

Herc130AV8R

I believe you are allowed to log SIC as a student in certain situations where the aircraft you are qualifying in requires 2 pilot's to be at the controls. For example, FTU training for initial qual in your MWS can be logged as SIC. I don't think I would log anything at UPT as SIC though.

FlyingGuy

Yes the time you are logging as a "student" in a C-130, C-5 etc can be SIC. However the only thing that shows up in ARMS as "student time" is undergraduate time i.e. UPT.