AOC Course
03-16-2011 | 10:26 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 51
From: Legacy FO
In the AMD, pilots AFSCs at a minimum have to be Aircraft Commanders. Ideally, they want people who are instructors if not an evaluators. I might be mistaken, but anyone thrown into a Strategy position must be a patch wearer.
A lot of people poke fun at the AOC. I know, I was one of them. I used to ***** and whine when "CAOC" told me to do something that didn't make any sense. However, after working there, I now understand why things are the way they are. Still doesn't make it right, but there are reasons to the madness.
03-17-2011 | 11:00 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
From: Walmart Greeter
I agree and disagree with you. The AOCs are a mess when it comes to standardization and they don't always have it right. However, the FTU can also get out of Fort Walton Beach and learn a couple of new tricks.
For example, IMHO, Osan should never have an AOC. You can't tell me with a straight face that if NK comes south, that Osan's AOC is going to remain. During a shoot'em war, will they be able to send troops and equipment from Travis to Osan in order to stand up the AMD portion? Not only no, but hell no. So why do we allow these AOCs and commands to play these stupid games? Move the crap back to Hickam, Japan, or Guam. South Korea will get over it. If they want to die in the HTAC, let them.
The schoolhouse. A select few of those bubbas pushed for the ATP-56B crap air refueling procedures. What is more disturbing is that AMC adopted it, overnight, without even consulting the shooters and bombers. Some LtCols and Majors at the FTU got their OPR bullets. Mark my words, there will be an accident that will be directly contributed to the woeful procedures in this document.
The schoolhouse is quick to show how several of the AOCs are currently violating doctrine. Now I agree with having the flexibility to change things, especially doctrine, if the situation is right. However, we've been doing things doctrinally incorrect for so long, the new cadre of folks wouldn't even know that the way they're doing business is wrong and we learned those lessons the hard way a long time ago. But if we get into a big shoot'em war, think Gulf War I or larger scale war (GWII doesn't come close), we are screwed from a doctrine aspect and we will again learn the hard way.
The next big hatchet that's going to fall is AOC consolidation. I think with all these funding cuts you're going to see a lot of AOCs combined, or at least the mobility part brought back to Scott.
For example, IMHO, Osan should never have an AOC. You can't tell me with a straight face that if NK comes south, that Osan's AOC is going to remain. During a shoot'em war, will they be able to send troops and equipment from Travis to Osan in order to stand up the AMD portion? Not only no, but hell no. So why do we allow these AOCs and commands to play these stupid games? Move the crap back to Hickam, Japan, or Guam. South Korea will get over it. If they want to die in the HTAC, let them.
The schoolhouse. A select few of those bubbas pushed for the ATP-56B crap air refueling procedures. What is more disturbing is that AMC adopted it, overnight, without even consulting the shooters and bombers. Some LtCols and Majors at the FTU got their OPR bullets. Mark my words, there will be an accident that will be directly contributed to the woeful procedures in this document.
The schoolhouse is quick to show how several of the AOCs are currently violating doctrine. Now I agree with having the flexibility to change things, especially doctrine, if the situation is right. However, we've been doing things doctrinally incorrect for so long, the new cadre of folks wouldn't even know that the way they're doing business is wrong and we learned those lessons the hard way a long time ago. But if we get into a big shoot'em war, think Gulf War I or larger scale war (GWII doesn't come close), we are screwed from a doctrine aspect and we will again learn the hard way.
The next big hatchet that's going to fall is AOC consolidation. I think with all these funding cuts you're going to see a lot of AOCs combined, or at least the mobility part brought back to Scott.
04-10-2011 | 10:38 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 51
From: Legacy FO
It is a course taught down at the schoolhouse in Hurlburt Field. If you have done your schooling, you will know what an AOC or CAOC (Combined Air Operations Center) is. These are the people that control your mission ... or screw it up. If it flies through the air, it is on an ATO created by a CAOC.
Most heavy USAF pilots seem to think CAOC is the term for the boys at the Deid. But in reality, TACC is a CAOC and there are other CAOCs around the world, including NATO CAOCs.
Air and Space Operations Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This tool is really hamming it up.
And even more propaganda ...
Most heavy USAF pilots seem to think CAOC is the term for the boys at the Deid. But in reality, TACC is a CAOC and there are other CAOCs around the world, including NATO CAOCs.
Air and Space Operations Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This tool is really hamming it up.
And even more propaganda ...
06-05-2011 | 05:01 PM
#17
New Hire
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Brief thread revival. I would be interested to hear anyone's opinion on joining an AOC Guard/Reserve unit after punching off of active duty as a pilot. In my case my civilian job probably won't allow me to fly in the Guard/Reserve because of the number of days required away in addition to the 'standard' 1 weekend per month and 2 weeks per year. I have accepted this decided that looking for non-flying gigs is best for me, but I want to stay connected to military aviation. I’ve been looking at the AOC as a way to stay involved in aviation and do something interesting while finishing the last 9 years towards retirement. Is this a sound judgment, or is joining an AOC unit going to require a time commitment beyond the traditional 1 weekend month/2 weeks per year? I understand that a 90-180 TDY a few times to the Sandbox will be in order as an AOC bubba, but aside from these do AOC units typically require you to dedicate additional days each month while at home to support operations? And, overall, are the ops while working in an AOC rewarding or is it just painful staff nonsense? (Yes, I watched the AOC YouTube videos on this thread) Thanks in advance for opinions/inputs.
06-06-2011 | 01:00 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Before you apply, you may want to see how it pans out with upcoming DoD decisions:
Cost-cutting prompts massive reorganization
Cost-cutting prompts massive reorganization
06-08-2011 | 01:24 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: MD F/O
ANG/AFRC AOC Unit Recommended
Turbo,
Based on your requirement for min participation but “staying in the game,” I believe an ANG/AFRC AOC unit is a nice fit. You would be able to stick predominately to a 2-day per month, 15-day active TDY tour per year—perhaps an additional 2-week exercise per year based upon your specific unit. The 179-day desert tour is not a requirement unless you volunteer.
AFRC has two AOC units—one on each coast: 701COS at March ARB, CA and the 710th at Langley; Seasoned ANG AOC units are in NY, PA, MO, FL as well as some fledgling ANG AOC units developing elsewhere; pick the one closest to you to minimize the commute. Chat with each about your participation requirements and to understand their tasking alignment. Example: If you like Bulgogi —the 701st is aligned with Korea, MOANG with Hawaii, NYANG to Europe, etc. That may play into your decision wrt where you want to fight/survive at when the balloon goes up.
IMO, the AOC is one of the last bastions of the traditional Guard/Reserve units where you can enjoy the Reserve program, as they are free from any TFI association with the Active Duty—this is a good thing. TFI units (combined ANG/AFRC and AD units) will drive you into the dirt—they have merged the AD inefficiency with what used to be a good ANG/AFRC unit program and have made the participation requirements nearly unmanageable for a Reservist. I would not recommend an AFRC IMA position either—the paperwork drill associated with the IMA program is onerous and the fact you augment said inefficient AD makes that program frustrating at many levels.
If you do not have the participation available to fly for the ANG/AFRC, then I believe the AOC is the next best mission. The AD budget restructuring will not affect your ability to join an ANG or AFRC AOC unit. Do some homework, chat with the units, pick your AOC, participate as you desire and “stay in the game.” Good luck.
Based on your requirement for min participation but “staying in the game,” I believe an ANG/AFRC AOC unit is a nice fit. You would be able to stick predominately to a 2-day per month, 15-day active TDY tour per year—perhaps an additional 2-week exercise per year based upon your specific unit. The 179-day desert tour is not a requirement unless you volunteer.
AFRC has two AOC units—one on each coast: 701COS at March ARB, CA and the 710th at Langley; Seasoned ANG AOC units are in NY, PA, MO, FL as well as some fledgling ANG AOC units developing elsewhere; pick the one closest to you to minimize the commute. Chat with each about your participation requirements and to understand their tasking alignment. Example: If you like Bulgogi —the 701st is aligned with Korea, MOANG with Hawaii, NYANG to Europe, etc. That may play into your decision wrt where you want to fight/survive at when the balloon goes up.
IMO, the AOC is one of the last bastions of the traditional Guard/Reserve units where you can enjoy the Reserve program, as they are free from any TFI association with the Active Duty—this is a good thing. TFI units (combined ANG/AFRC and AD units) will drive you into the dirt—they have merged the AD inefficiency with what used to be a good ANG/AFRC unit program and have made the participation requirements nearly unmanageable for a Reservist. I would not recommend an AFRC IMA position either—the paperwork drill associated with the IMA program is onerous and the fact you augment said inefficient AD makes that program frustrating at many levels.
If you do not have the participation available to fly for the ANG/AFRC, then I believe the AOC is the next best mission. The AD budget restructuring will not affect your ability to join an ANG or AFRC AOC unit. Do some homework, chat with the units, pick your AOC, participate as you desire and “stay in the game.” Good luck.
06-13-2011 | 06:09 PM
#20
New Hire
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Kolohe,
Thanks for the reply- very helpful and nice to hear that the AOC mission sounds like a good one to be part of. I know exactly what you mean about TFI. Coming from the USN it is called ARI (Active-Reserve Integration) and it has similarly been successful in hurting morale and doing away with many formerly good deals.
Thanks for the reply- very helpful and nice to hear that the AOC mission sounds like a good one to be part of. I know exactly what you mean about TFI. Coming from the USN it is called ARI (Active-Reserve Integration) and it has similarly been successful in hurting morale and doing away with many formerly good deals.
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