Duksrule

Oh if you were wrong you knew about it. He just wasn't going to let someone run over one of his Os or Es for that matter. If you needed your butt chewed it happened back at the squadron in a closed room, not by someone else in public. He was one of those guys that never yelled or jumped up and down but if you let him down, you felt bad about it. He also would let you make your own mistakes, figure them out and let you learn. As long as you weren't going to get someone hurt or cost a bunch of money, he just seemed to know when to let you run and when to reel you in and did it all in a calm and non-demeaning way. He certainly gave me many tools for my leadership "toolbox".

On another note, it's sad how things have changed. Adm Mullen was our CARGRU way back when and when he would come to Follies the entire airwing would chant "shoe, shoe, shoe, shoe....." when he walked in. This use to make him mad. He went to t he boat CO, XO, CAG, DCAG, down to the squadron COs and told them to make us stop. They would sit us all down and do their duty. Then the next time around he got the same chant. Finally he figured out we weren't going to stop and stopped coming. If that happened in todays Navy, someone would get relieved.

727C47

I served in the Marine infantry in the 80's , it was the true faith, and we were its wild children, worked hard,played hard, loved the life, it was part of the warrior ethos,the deep ,down belief that you were the best at what you did and would never be defeated,
God help us if they chip away at that.

UAL T38 Phlyer

It has been more than chipped away at. It has been smashed to bits, and ground to dust.

USAF is just as bad.

I tell my students how Wing Commander Robin Olds, frustrated with the crappy AIM-4 missile, had his maintenance guys re-wire F-4Ds to carry the AIM-9, without official sanction or permission. Why? Because he couldn't justify sending his guys into combat with inferior weapons. It was about combat. He got his butt chewed, but stuck to his position. (And still got promoted).

I ask my students: Would any SQ/CC or WG/CC do something like that today? In the training environment, would an O-6 say "No, we are NOT doing the latest upgrade to TIMS; it is a piece of crap that cost $4 million bucks!"

Hardly. Too worried about their next promotion, or 'Community Involvement' parade. It is about politics.

The days of innovative and creative thinking are crushed. We only do things that were done--as new ideas--in the innovative 1930s, 40s, and 50s. I honestly believe that if we had not done formation takeoffs and landings for the last 80 years, that if someone suggested it as a new idea today, it would be shot down immediately.

The problem is, the most effective warriors are those who are the most ruthless and organized, with superior numbers. Of these, ruthlessness is most important in my eye. Ruthlessness often involves creative thinking, risk-taking, and going against the standard-way. It worked for Atilla the Hun, the Muslim armies of the 800s, Ghengis Khan, the Japanese in the Pacific, and the Nazis. (The latter two only over-extended themselves). Compassion for the enemy was non-existant. Risk was assumed and accepted.

Modern western militaries have been forced into a no-risk, pacifist, merciful warrior mold by their political leaders. The composition and mentality of those forces is built to curry political favor over a broad public base, and satisfy vocal Political Action Groups with abundant money.

Superior weaponry can only go so far in equalizing that imbalance.

727C47

there are Chesty Pullers ,and Robin Old's laying dormant right now, probably wearing lieutenant's bars,and captain's railroad tracks, like '41 after the Pearl Harbor debacle the deadwood (careerists) were put out to pasture and the warriors came into the fore, of course by the fall of '45 the process entirely reversed itself again like it always does till the next wake up call.

jungle

Very true, and between wars the troops were reduced to wooden rifles, cardboard tanks and running around with their arms held out for airplanes.

But today we have this accordiing to Lehman(who is one of the good guys): "When the Department of Defense was created in 1947, the headquarters staff was limited to 50 billets. Today, 750,000 full time equivalents are on the headquarters staff."

Massive topheaviness in C3 and other functions and always fewer teeth for the tiger.

I doubt we will have another world war on a conventional basis, but instead a continuous collection of wars on small scale and without end.

Winged Wheeler

Duksrule

Well when JPME and Joint tours are required to make rank, you have to make up jobs for people to go to. Not important jobs but jobs all the same. I always hoped that the next "top 6 roll down" that the Navy would have would actually start at the top. Think about it, how many Flag and even 0-6 officers could be replaced? I say take everything down a paygrade at the officer rank and stop gutting the enlisted ranks.

Bring back the 0-2 and 0-3 selection boards, let the LTs actually compete not just get the EP because it is their turn before they walk out the door, let Super JO tours turn into Dept Head tours, senior 0-4s to XO and fleet up as a junior 0-5 CO. Get rid of End of Tour awards, if you haven't done squat at a squadron to get an award before you are leaving then maybe you don't deserve one. Bring back the competitive nature and let people fight to lead not get to lead because they haven't gotten in trouble. When I was coming up I had a department head that use to say, "the Navy is easy, don't get caught with a live boy or a dead girl and anyone can be a CO if they just wait their turn". Sad but true words in todays military.

LowSlowT2

I'm reminded of a quote on a mIRC room in the SOF J3 area during the opening days of OIF: "Never before in the history of armed conflict have so few been led by so many." ...and that's half the battle!

Deuce130

I hear what you guys are saying, but.... How many people in the 80's actually went to war? The 90's? Very few. Today's military has been fighting and dying for a decade. I'd rather have today's warriors than the guys from 20 years ago who were Red Flag all stars. We can all agree that queep is on the rise, but so is killing our enemies. In great numbers.

LowSlowT2

It's not just queep on the rise though...if that's all it was, it'd be simple and, more importantly, it would wash away with a good 'combat rinse.' No, this PC, careerist, CYA leadership style is here to stay and it HINDERS combat effectiveness without question.

I was off on loan to a friendly foreign force when OEF kicked off. I got back to one of my units 9 months before OIF kicked off. One of the first questions I asked was, "What'd you guys get done? What did you get fixed? What new toys did you get? What rules did you fix?" A CMNS is a powerful tool to fix things that are wrong with your plane or procedures, especially on a LDHD asset and 'flexible' community. The answer? "Nothing. We pretty much fought the war by the book." YGBFSM!

When I joined, AFR 60-16 was about 28 pages long. Now, 202V3 is over 110 pages long. We've got one-size-fits-all micro-managing rules for every aspect of our employment. We're fighting with one hand tied behind our backs and the other hand flipping through the regs to make sure we're not violating something...

Great Americans get the job done DESPITE the queep and poor leadership, yet these buffoons think it's their great leadership that gets things done...