USMCFLYR...

You up in OKC flying Kings/Challengers for flight check stuff?

Just curious...I have a few friends up there, wondering if you know them.

We get it. That's the way the USAF does it.

However, in your scenario, you've managed to log 3 hours of PIC time on a 2 hour sortie if you put those time into the computer application many airlines are using.

They want PIC time and instructor time separate, but their computer will combine the two in order to give a PIC total. Are you going to remember that sortie (and the others like it) and subtract out your IP time from your PIC time when you enter it in their computer?

I have an e-logbook and it has both an IP and a PIC column. It defaults my IP time to PIC. If I'm responsible for the plane....almost always because i'm the person w/ the highest qual level (EP), then I will over-ride that default and put the entire sortie as PIC. In the end, I don't combine IP and PIC. I choose to use this instead:

EP + IP + 85% Pri (assuming I have signed for the a/c...dv, orts, fams, solo, ct, etc). That way when I do fill out an airline app, it doesn't combine them.

Then I just compare it to my PIC column (sanity check). It's w/in about 10 hrs...so I know the 85% is close enough. I don't think there is a perfect way to do it, but an e-log makes it much easier to compute.

The important thing is that my e-log matches my USAF prints and I have a sheet (from my e-log) that explains my conversions (Pri=>Pic & 0.3 / sortie).

Shack.

I just always thought that was BS, since as the flight lead I briefed, led, instructed in flight on the radio, and debriefed. All of which involved instruction...yet because I wasn't writing the gradesheet, I couldn't log IP time.

Oh, well..doesn't matter in the grand scheme, I suppose, but when my IP time gets compared to a heavy dude who logs all IP time on every sortie simply because of his IP qual, I'll look much less 'experienced'.

I, too, have a digital logbook that I log my military time in, and use "FAA" or "Major Airline" rules.

I have both a "PIC" column and a "Dual Given" column. If I am the instructor for a 1.0 sortie, then 1.0 goes in "PIC" and 1.0 also goes in the "Dual Given" column...because it counts for both.

If an airline asks for IP time and PIC time, and considers the time separately, it's easy to separate the time out through the wonders of Excel.

Is IP vs. PIC time really that big of a deal? No matter if you log EP, IP, or MP time, you are building PIC time, which I assume is all that matters to the major carriers in terms of flight quals.

If I've read the tea leaves correctly, the three most important factors to getting hired at a major are 1) Meeting minimum requirements, 2) Internal Recs, and 3) Potential to be a good representative of the pilot group.

We're not the first military guys to apply to the majors. Sure, if your stuff is in the street, that's a red flag to the hiring board. However, are we getting too far in the weeds arguing about EP/IP/MP/PIC time?

I've got my 1500 hours of PIC time, and while that's a combo of MP/IP/EP time, the important thing is that I've met that hiring requirement.

Right. Because hiring boards don't know the difference between fighters and heavies. I get your sarcasm, but IMO, this whole discussion is getting kinda Chicken Little.

The bottom line is, check with the company's HR website and see how they want you to list USAF flying time. Many companies are different.

For example, some let you use Other time. Some don't. Some say all IP and EP time is PIC. Some won't let you log EP time as PIC time. Some say that only the person who signed for the jet is the PIC.

Just be conservative, brings your SARMs paperwork, and an easy to read breakout of how you did your times.

During my two interviews, they didn't ask me any questions regarding my flying times ... nor did they look at the stuff while I was sitting in front of them.

I never said you couldn't document your 781 in that manner. Bear in mind that 401 is a "how to document your time" book, not a "what is occurring on the plane" book. Just because the regs allow for something doesn't mean that's what's happening on this sortie. Being able to get your 781 past the SARM doesn't mean you logged your flight time accurately, it means the way it was documented complies with the AFI. Nothing more.

I fully grant that I am making a relatively fine point & have already conceded that most don't agree with me...and has been said before, CT is a small percentage of anyone's time. At the end of the day, log what your conscience & AFIs allow, be able to explain it, and go from there. ;)

I'll bow out now.

This is really a small piece to the gigantic problem the USAF has ... standardization across fleets.