I agree with you. BUT...

...the major difference between the folks in the military and everyone else in gov't is that the folks in the military don't get anywhere NEAR the kind of pay and benefits other gov't employees get. And you don't hear the head of those gov't sectors arguing for a pay decrease or freeze (unlike Sec. Def. Panette...see: the OP).

In fact, gov't employees (excluding the military) get an avg. pay that EXCEEDS their counterparts in private business. Think about that.

The avg. salary in gov't is GREATER than those in the private sector. And the efficiencies between the two, in comparison, is nowhere NEAR identical. Of course, that's because it takes an act of God to get fired for being a lazy bum in gov't work, unlike the private sector.

So IMHO, excluding the military is fair....but by all means go after the sleazy private businesses that over-charge the military (and indirectly, the taxpayers).

But do you REALLY wanna cut gov't waste??

Then take away the job protection of gov't workers and treat them as private sector employees. There is no need for the SEIU and gov't unions when their jobs were and are ALREADY protected. They just want to have their cake and eat it to...

...all the while billing the rest of us for the expense.

 

Yes, the heads of the other agencies are implementing hiring freezes. We are under a hiring freeze currently, they are also putting furloughs on the table and all sorts of stuff.

But that aside, a HUGE portion of our budget goes to the military.

"Military don't get anywhere the kind of pay and benefits that other government employees get"? Seriously?

First of all, in the military you have an awesome opportunity to advance, much more than in many areas of business. Making higher end NCO and mid grade Officer pay isn't bad, a lot further than you'd go than at a regional airline, a "civilian" job.

Second, your housing is taken care of in many if not most cases, you never have to worry about many things related to health care and other stuff.

You get to go to school FOR FREE! 75% tuition when you are in, and many are covering 100% with GI bill and various funds, some people even got in a few years back under a program that paid to go to school ANYWHERE for free (not sustainable and a bad business decision, but if they were guaranteed it, they should get it).

Then you have base services and things like the commisary and PX, ability to get stuff for cheaper. I remember when my car got damaged by hail on base, I got the damage reimbursed by the evil government, due to there not being any garages provided. Not bad.

Then of course there are veterans services and everything associated with that.

And I got to experience these things. It was great. I ended up getting even more money for school than I was originally promised, due to increases along the way. I didn't have to worry about much. Working on the outside was a real eye opener, as I worked my rear end off just as hard, but often wasn't compensated anywhere near what my effort was. At least in the military I was getting paid 24/7 and I had all those wonderful benefits.

And of course those are all the things we have today. I'm not for cutting military benefits, I'm for cutting useless jobs and waste. I'm not sure what you are talking about, as I brought up examples of huge amounts of waste, not to mention we have many overlapping redundancies, not people's benefits and pay. Are you trying to imply that I was saying military benefits are for the cutting? I have good benefits in the government, but the "average" government job isn't all that you are thinking it is. I have a friend topped out at GS9, been working in "the government" for about 10 years now. His entire specialty tops out at GS12, and that's the top guy in Washington. He can't apply for a job more than 2 grades above this, even though he has the education requirements (a Doctorate). He can't go any higher right now unless he gives up his home and moves his family. Once you are "in" government service, you have to show the time in grade at the previous level, but if he was off the street he could hire into that position now that he is qualified otherwise. How about at the executive levels? Are the government officials in the various agencies pulling down millions/yr like civilian executives? No, they are not, not even close. It's good, but it's also not all it's cracked up to be on the outside. I almost went back into the military at one point, had my OCS stuff all ready to go. I would have been BANKING money in just over a year due to previous service. There are great opportunities depending on exactly which job you have and which agency you work for, but you are painting a very broad stroke saying that "government jobs pay more than the equivalent civilian jobs". But again, I'm for cutting the waste. Everyone needs to give some is a good way to think about it. With ridiculous research and development programs (and some are worth saving!) we are wasting tons of money and creating corporate welfare where various defense contractors rely on the government for $ and keeping them in business, and the politicians rely on the votes from their constituents that work there and interact with them. That was more the gist of what I was getting at, not axing military benefits or anything ridiculous like that. On the other hand, we did ramp up for two wars. I can go on google earth and see all that they've built since I was in the military a few years back. It is a lot, so naturally we are going to be scaling back some, which I suppose is a "cut" to some people.

Just don't give me that "if you really want to cut gov. waste, you need to cut (insert pet peeve here)". We'll never get anywhere with that...

 

Civil servants in general, especially federal types, have a far better deal than almost anyone in the military...if you take into account what they get vs. what they give.

The military has all kinds of extra perks, but that's primarily to offset the extreme demands we make of them, as well as the impact on their families.

And the military will not let you stay forever, unless you get promoted to 4-star rank.

All that said I think most of us agree that congress (with public support) has gotten a little carried away with some of the latest vet benefits, probably due to their own guilt about the wars. The mistake was probably in extending a lot of extra vet benefits to ALL service members because the cost is probably not sustainable. They probably should have focused the extra bennies on those with combat or extreme hardship deployments. But it's not PC to discriminate against the REMFs or shoe clerks or whatever you call them.

I know PLENTY of career AD guys whose DREAM job is something in the GS ranks. That tells me all I need to know

 

Your comments about government employees and unions indicate a total lack of real understanding of them and the collective bargaining process. That's a discussion for another day.

You are complaining that you want a bigger piece of the cake you are already eating. Yet you forget to say that no one forced you to take the job. Yes, many do out of a desire to serve. And just as many do because as was so eloquently said above by James...there are a lot of things you aren't paying for or getting at a deep discount. Education, health care, housing, BX, and many other things. Would you have served if you didn't get any of those things? If it was just pay, 3 hots and a cot? No, those enticements made the deal. And it's those folks in the government jobs and making less in the private sector paying taxes that make those...let's call them "entitlements" for the sake of discussion...possible. Yes, they get the nation defended by paying those taxes. Shouldn't they have the right to say how their money is spent? Thankfully for you they do...they want a trimmed defense budget with emphasis on maintaining the needs and welfare of those like you and your families. They also know the value of the dollar that goes into your pocket from theirs, and the dollar that they don't have for their kids food, housing or health care. They could...could...make the argument that you too are living off the government and will continue to do so after you leave with 20 years...still young enough to find a job and get outside health care and bennies...but they still have to pay...no problem with the wounded and maimed; but for someone perfectly healthy?

Yes, there has been a heightened risk and number of deployments. Hopefully you won't be foolish enough to tell us how rough it is; many of us can introduce you to WWII and Korean era parents and relatives who flew and lived in open swamps and would have killed to live in the worst bases you ever have suffered.

A pretty wise airline owner once said, "this is the life you have chosen." It applied to his pilots and applies to you. No one twisted your arm. You have your career, a paycheck and bennies and a nice jet paid for and fueled by the taxpayer. Pretty sure you are also taking courses for an advanced degree to make your eventual entry into the private sector better.

So...you chose the deal. If you don't like it now...welcome to the world of people who don't have collective bargaining rights. They can either suck up to the boss, shut up and deal with it or quit. Same with you. Don't mean to seem harsh or piling on, but it's the reality you need to understand before you leave the insulated world you operate in for the real one.

And lest you or anyone think it's "liberal drivel," consider that it was the guy before who started two wars and didn't pay for them. He skipped on the bill and now the tab is due.

 

Really? I thought it was crystal clear. Hang on a sec...Yep, it still is.

No, "we" aren't...

...unless you belong to one political party in particular, and then you can take responsibility for waste like Solyndra, corn subsidies for ethanol, useless and going-bankrupt wind farms that don't generate crap unless the wind is blowing (hard), massive increases in gov't spending, like for brand new and unnecessary Gov't Departments, etc, etc, etc, etc.....to say nothing of the unmitigated and unfolding disaster of a certain Healthcare Act that supposedly was going to reduce costs but now even the CBO says will only increase them (as well as cause millions of people to actually LOSE their healthcare insurance).


Nope. Just one. Still ongoing, in point of fact. But I would agree that it's funding was very poorly mishandled, even if it was approved by bi-partisan Congressional approval.



LOL

I never said that. I said...


Need proof?


Many Federal Workers Out-Earn Private Sector Labor: Study


WASHINGTON — The average federal worker earns about 2 percent more than a private sector worker in a comparable profession, though the government's generous pension system means that overall compensation is significantly higher, a government study released Monday said.

The average benefits package for federal workers, including health insurance and a defined benefit pension plan, costs the government about 48 percent more than for private sector workers in comparable jobs.

-------------------------------
What does all that mean?

It means $1 of private sector pay buys FAR MORE in productivity than $1 spent of gov't sector pay.

 

No, they really don't.

Wrong again, bucko. I've never been in the military. But in your knee jerk response you want to put words into people's mouth, don't ya? LOL

Yup. Biggest regret of my life, not serving. But I've already said that in this thread once before (obviously you've read the whole thing, right?). How about you? Did you ever serve??


Yup. That's liberal drivel alright. He "didn't start" anything. Osama Bin Laden did, and BOTH political parties agreed that going to war was the right thing to do. Liberals...such as yourself...LOVE to forget that and pretend their side didn't vote for it.

 

I'm one of those guys. What does it tell you about me?

 

Well then, civilian taxpayers should not complain either. After all, "this is the life they have chosen."

 

Haha, well according to your article, we need to pay the lower level government workers 2% less, and those with advanced degrees (like myself) a lot more to make it "equal" to the civilian realm and private sector... I didn't even have to read an article to know this, as I mentioned it above, but thanks for providing the reference for me.

Now, I may just be an ignorant worker bee, but this quote:

Makes me think it's the constant whittling down of private sector jobs by execs that is responsible for this, not government pay increases. We are getting off track though, so if there is money to be saved by reducing salaries by 2%, that's not all that bad. I'd rather get the "equality" factor I mentioned above though!

Anyhow, I get it Underover, you steadfastly believe that there can be no compromise until the "other guy" makes cuts first. Thereby, we will never cut anything. I still don't get though how "cutting military budget" (along with everything else) got into military benefits, although I will admit those benefits were pretty good.

 

The point being that the GS is a good deal, better than AD in the opinion of many (who voted with their feet). I was refuting someone who thought the military got too much pay, benefits, and perks.

Other than that, nothing implied about the GS or the folks who choose that route.