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Is it time to leave mil and go airlines?

Old 07-05-2013, 06:35 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
True. An accepted technique is to put a coversheet in your AF flight records. Use this when you bring the records to an interview to detail any adjustments you made to your times and how you arrived at the totals you put on that particular airline's app. Military sortie factors and PIC definition vary from airline to airline so you'll need to recomputed your times to adhere to each airline's rules (not the FAR definition of PIC). Obviously, you'll still need a logbook for your ATP flights and any other civilian time on your applications.

Finally - Yes, EC Interview Prep is a must.
Ty for the info.

Will airlines expect me to have a logbook for the minimal flight time it will take to get my ATP? And what about bug smasher time prior to military flying? Is it my option to omit bug smasher time prior to entering the military flying program?

I think properly logging those premilitary hours might be more trouble then any benefit they'd give me.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:00 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by xjtguy
Apply right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're current/qualified.
+1.................
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:23 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
True. An accepted technique is to put a coversheet in your AF flight records. Use this when you bring the records to an interview to detail any adjustments you made to your times and how you arrived at the totals you put on that particular airline's app. Military sortie factors and PIC definition vary from airline to airline so you'll need to recomputed your times to adhere to each airline's rules (not the FAR definition of PIC). Obviously, you'll still need a logbook for your ATP flights and any other civilian time on your applications.

Finally - Yes, EC Interview Prep is a must.
Pretty unanimous EC support here for a reason; it is your best bet to maximize your success at an interview. Not an AF type so not aware of what AF printout entails but saw several at interviews. Both Pilotcredentials (Fedex and SWA) and airlineapps(UAL and Delta) do automatic flight hour conversion based on sortie count. My old school USN/USMC/CG logbook was a mess and besides converting from First pilot/second pilot/A-time to PIC/SIC, had to derive a sortie count, and type/model/series breakdown of night/instrument/PIC/SIC and night day landings, not to mention the specific companies currency requirement of 6 or 12 month currency with complete breakdown of the same things. i did not include my civilian logbook time because it was less than 100 hours (that i did not include in my totals)and more importantly had no bearing on any ratings. But if i had done my ATP in a Seminole at All ATPs yes i would have brought it and included the times. SWA does a complete face to face logbook check as part of their interview, UAL interviewers go over your logbook and signed application right before you go in to interview. Gotta get it right!

Good luck!
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:24 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MikeF16
Ty for the info.

Will airlines expect me to have a logbook for the minimal flight time it will take to get my ATP? And what about bug smasher time prior to military flying? Is it my option to omit bug smasher time prior to entering the military flying program?

I think properly logging those premilitary hours might be more trouble then any benefit they'd give me.
I had my military logbooks (USN) and a single spreadsheet printout of my civilian time as my civilian "logbook" is electronic and consisted of just a few flights. In my interview, they didn't even want to see it.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:08 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by MikeF16
Ty for the info.

Will airlines expect me to have a logbook for the minimal flight time it will take to get my ATP? And what about bug smasher time prior to military flying? Is it my option to omit bug smasher time prior to entering the military flying program?

I think properly logging those premilitary hours might be more trouble then any benefit they'd give me.
Standard answer - it depends. If you're including the pre-military hours in any totals you're reporting on applications, then absolutely. The ATP is sort of in the same category. You'll check the box for ATP on your applications, so it's probably a good idea to have the practice rides and ATP check ride logged along with your examiner's endorsement (signature/examiner #).

My advice with logbooks and flight times is be very conservative. As some have said, it's possible a particular airline may not scrutinize your logbooks on the day your interview but you want to be prepared for anything. You don't want to have to tap dance over some grey area in the interview or come across as anything but totally honest. An example for a fighter pilot might be to omit two-seat time you logged with an IP on board from your PIC total if that airline only wants PIC time where you signed for the jet. Most airlines know it's impossible to have 100% of your F-16 time as PIC if your first few rides, first tanker ride, etc. were dual.

As far as the bug smasher time, I think you'll probably get a variety of opinions about that. It probably won't make any difference in your competitive status, that's true. To just leave it out of your logbook is an option but you'll really have to treat that whole period of flying as if it didn't happen, in my opinion. That might border on dishonesty depending on who you ask. Realize that logbooks are treated like legal documents in the civilian world. Every check ride is recorded with the examiner's signature, every flight, every event. They can be very personal and far less sterile than our AF flight records. Since you're going to enter that "world" it's not a bad idea to jump in with both feet. Your bug smasher time is part of your "story". If you already have that time logged, I'd consider using that logbook and adding your ATP flights to it. Bring it to your interview and submit a complete picture of your personal history. You're going to be asked to tell about yourself in the interview. You don't want to have to omit details about your pre-military flying because you chose to leave a "hole" in your recorded flight experience.

If you don't have those bugsmasher flights in an official logbook, you could add them to the new one you'll use for your ATP flights (assuming you have some kind of record of them). One caution with logging old flights in a new logbook. Every logbook has a copyright date. I heard an ugly story about a military pilot who meticulously entered every AF sortie into a civilian logbook so his times were combined with his civilian flying (completely unnecessary, BTW). He attempted to pass off the logbook as the logbook he'd kept for his entire flying career in an interview. The only problem was he had AF sorties from 1992 in a logbook with a 1995 copyright date.

Sorry for the long answer. There have been several threads about this whole mil to civilian logbook transition, PIC hours, etc. You might want to do a search and get some other views on it. This is mostly just my .02
Cheers.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:41 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by HuggyU2
Wow.
I have to vehemently disagree with that statement,... although I see your perspective.

The old T-38 seat is fine. Most of the T-38 accidents in Road to Wings would not happen today, since we learned so much about how NOT to fly the T-38.

And of those, very few,... if any,... would have had different outcomes with the MB ejection seat.

So,... how many millions of dollars did it cost the AF to "upgrade" the T-38C fleet with these seats?
Anecdotal: I'm told that the seat installation was delayed extensively due to some sort of rail corrosion,... but that the MB folks were still at the initial UPT base to get the seats. I'm sure they were being paid. If anyone knows if this is valid, chime in. If it is, that's a lot of $$ getting forked out for the delay.

Had the AF taken that money and invested it in the T-X, they would have made a better choice.

Not 1 life will be saved by this new seat, that the old seat wouldn't have saved. It will take me 10+ years to validate this statement,... so I guess it is irrelevant.

In any case,... I'm still flying an -A model, and couldn't be happier. I can see pretty well out of the backseat, unlike those pilots sitting behind the MB seat.

And I don't have to deal with the crappy -C model cockpit. The one that Boeing low-balled, and which, after the cost overruns, came out to be more than the Northrop cockpit,... which had already been installed in South American F-5's, and was pretty sweet.
Sorry,... I digress.
As you can see, I'm not a fan of the -C model. Shoot, if the AF had spent all the -C model "upgrade" money and MB ejection seat money on T-X procurement, we'd be flying the T-50 by now.

But I'll take my -A any day!!!
It would have saved Dashs life.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:28 PM
  #37  
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-Sequenced seats would have saved two guys at Sheppard a few years ago.
-Drogue chute in old seat is way past it's service life, been wavered too many times. They don't make new ones.
-Manual back up in the old seat? Good luck with that, but I guess if it come to that you got the rest of your life to figure it out.
-Seats are in at RND and DLF, delayed at END and CBM first due to new propellent contractor that didn't test it at 69 below zero and now delayed due to chute packs being rejected and sent back to UK for redo. (Not sure about SPS).
-They will wait too long to replace the white (grey) rocket and come up with some sort of T-6 UPT straight to RTU
- Do a log book, had mine checked on a corporate interview just this past week
- Get out, run like the wind, you've done your part, thanks for serving. The AF has been great, twice for me, but the recall is almost over and it's time to go, again.
-Use the services of Emerald Coast
-Now I have to get back to my ADLS, I'm sure I'm overdue on finger nail hygiene and disco belt usage while rendering proper customs and courtesies to e-9s.
-Last, if you are ROTC summer camp with Huggy and he says he knows a good bar in Austin called "Uncle Nasty's" use caution.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:57 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
Can't be much worse than sitting on a 40mm shell in the -37 (?could it?).
My T-37 IP, a very large person, said the 40mm shell would blow the airplane straight down and he would continue on a ballistic trajectory.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:04 PM
  #39  
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You can always tell the difference between the Tweet dudes and the Sixers. And it's in "HANDGRIPS - RAISE / TRIGGERS - SQUEEZE" and "EJECTION HANDLE - PULL". My money was on the Sixer seat, but that doesn't mean it was a better plane.

And, the grass is always greenest where you want it to be. Get out if you want to, but don't burn any bridges. Keeps some contacts, and if you have time, schmooze a little with the guard/reservists. Because no matter how good a deal you've got, sometime it'll go south.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:36 PM
  #40  
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My apologies. I had completely disregarded the fact that the new seats allow a sequenced ejection, irrespective of who initiates. I was only considering the individual seat capes.

As for Dash, the ejection was initiated at a very high speed. Would the new seat have compensated for what would have been a poor body position?

I would like to know the total cost to develop, test, purchase, and install the new seats into the fleet.

BTW, does anyone know how many T-38C's AETC is still using?

p.s. how do you remember it was called Uncle Nasty's?? Your memory is amazing. What else is amazing is that it is still there, 30 years later,... same location. Just called Nasty's now. How appropriate.
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