Karzai condemns airstrikes
11-28-2013 | 09:49 PM
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From: Left Seat
Karzai condemns airstrikes
Afghan president condemns U.S. airstrike that killed a child
WHY are we still there ? We are talking about a country where the adult men have sex with little boys, and sex men on men with each other is not considered homosexuality. Little boys are paraded on stages like an auction, top dollar for best one. Opium farmers cannot grow anything else, and the drugs are going to Europe anyway, not USA. Etc etc. My opinions only, but...
KABUL (Reuters) - President Hamid Karzai said U.S. forces had bombed a home in southern Afghanistan, killing a small child and wounding two women, and condemned the attack as a sign of disregard for civilian lives, his spokesman said on Thursday.
The strike could not have come at a worse time, as Karzai is engaged in a stand-off with the U.S. government over a bilateral security agreement that will decide whether U.S. troop stay in Afghanistan beyond 2014.
"It shows that U.S. forces have no respect for the decisions of the Loya Jirga and life of civilians in Afghanistan," said Karzai's spokesman, Aimal Faizi.
"If such operations continue, there will be no agreement."
The United States has threatened to pull its troops out of Afghanistan after 2014 - an outcome known as the "zero option", as it did in Iraq two years ago - unless a deal is clinched by the end of this year,
Karzai, however, has so far refused to sign, despite getting approval from the Loya Jirga last week. The council almost unanimously advised him to seal the agreement promptly, saying this was in the national interest.
Karzai instead has refused and made additional demands on the United States, including the return of all Afghan prisoners from its prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The child killed in Thursday's bombing was two or three years old, Faizi said, adding that the attack took place after the targeted individual ran into a home for safety.
"They give no importance to the life of civilians. They are killing civilians like flies," Faizi said.
"That should have been a red line for them... Even if he was an insurgent they shouldn't have fired on the house."
A man was killed in a separate strike in the same province on Thursday afternoon, Faizi added. Local officials had yet to confirm whether the victim was an insurgent or not.
The strike could not have come at a worse time, as Karzai is engaged in a stand-off with the U.S. government over a bilateral security agreement that will decide whether U.S. troop stay in Afghanistan beyond 2014.
"It shows that U.S. forces have no respect for the decisions of the Loya Jirga and life of civilians in Afghanistan," said Karzai's spokesman, Aimal Faizi.
"If such operations continue, there will be no agreement."
The United States has threatened to pull its troops out of Afghanistan after 2014 - an outcome known as the "zero option", as it did in Iraq two years ago - unless a deal is clinched by the end of this year,
Karzai, however, has so far refused to sign, despite getting approval from the Loya Jirga last week. The council almost unanimously advised him to seal the agreement promptly, saying this was in the national interest.
Karzai instead has refused and made additional demands on the United States, including the return of all Afghan prisoners from its prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The child killed in Thursday's bombing was two or three years old, Faizi said, adding that the attack took place after the targeted individual ran into a home for safety.
"They give no importance to the life of civilians. They are killing civilians like flies," Faizi said.
"That should have been a red line for them... Even if he was an insurgent they shouldn't have fired on the house."
A man was killed in a separate strike in the same province on Thursday afternoon, Faizi added. Local officials had yet to confirm whether the victim was an insurgent or not.
11-28-2013 | 10:14 PM
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Afghan president condemns U.S. airstrike that killed a child
WHY are we still there ? We are talking about a country where the adult men have sex with little boys, and sex men on men with each other is not considered homosexuality. Little boys are paraded on stages like an auction, top dollar for best one. Opium farmers cannot grow anything else, and the drugs are going to Europe anyway, not USA. Etc etc. My opinions only, but...
WHY are we still there ? We are talking about a country where the adult men have sex with little boys, and sex men on men with each other is not considered homosexuality. Little boys are paraded on stages like an auction, top dollar for best one. Opium farmers cannot grow anything else, and the drugs are going to Europe anyway, not USA. Etc etc. My opinions only, but...
See: Ancient Greece.
11-29-2013 | 04:21 AM
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From: B737
I'm still wondering why we are there. We went there in 2001 to kick the Taliban's a$$ for hiding al Qaeda, and also to destroy al Qaeda. We achieved both objectives, and since then we've decided to shift gears and turn it into a nation-building exercise. For some reason, the powers that be figured it would be a good idea to attempt to transform a medieval culture with next to nothing in infrastructure and very little national cohesiveness into a modern day democracy. Just makes me shake my head.
I was an advisor for the Iraqi Air Force teaching them to fly their C-130s, and THAT was a frustrating experience. But at least they had a sense of national pride, decent infrastructure, a basic education and, well, some semblance of a modern society. Little to none of that exists in Afghanistan, so I can't even imagine what it's like trying to build an air force there.
A good read, if you care, is Lt Col Michael Veneri's article titled "Multiplying by Zero". It's a very good look into why we are wasting our time, talent and treasure over there, and we just need to stop. Pull everyone back to the Deid and remind the Taliban that if we so much as hear a whisper from them, we'll be back overhead with fighters and bombers to stop their a$$es again.
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/...janfeb2011.pdf
11-29-2013 | 06:56 AM
#4
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I second the "Multiplying by Zero" article and viewpoint. It is frustrating to see how much money we pour into "improvement projects" in places like Afghanistan only to see that, when we turn over facilities to the Afghan Army, they simply loot it and then abandon their post.
How long have we been in Afghanistan now? And what is the next milestone we intend to achieve?
How long have we been in Afghanistan now? And what is the next milestone we intend to achieve?
11-29-2013 | 07:12 AM
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Yeah, time to go home. Worst case we have to do a drive-by and "re-calibrate" every decade or so...we know we can do that, and I bet it's it would 100 times cheaper than nation-building.
11-29-2013 | 07:24 AM
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From: Left Seat
silly question:
Is anybody (US Congress, IG, etc) questioning spending zillions over there (and possibly until 2023), with little ROI on the investment, to include money and manpower, many of whom died in the service of our country.
I personally hope the security agreement is NOT signed and we get everybody home. We gave it ten years, a "fair try" by all means, everybody can sleep soundly that we gave Afghan our best attempt, and it's on them now to run with it. Bring everybody home.
Is anybody (US Congress, IG, etc) questioning spending zillions over there (and possibly until 2023), with little ROI on the investment, to include money and manpower, many of whom died in the service of our country.
I personally hope the security agreement is NOT signed and we get everybody home. We gave it ten years, a "fair try" by all means, everybody can sleep soundly that we gave Afghan our best attempt, and it's on them now to run with it. Bring everybody home.
11-29-2013 | 07:38 AM
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From: Curator at Static Display
$$
The answer to "Why?' is, as it usually is, about money.
In this case, it is about mineral resources. It is a horrible physical and societal wasteland, but it has incredible mineral reserves vital to such important playthings as iphones.
China has secured most of the mineral rights, and is building a rail line from Afghanistan into Pakistan (I think) to harvest their just reward.
Additionally, I have read there are over a million Afghan refugees living in Europe. Europe wanted them out, so making their 'homeland' more hospitable was seen as a cost-effective way of getting them to leave.
Paid for with the riches, blood, and limbs of the United States.
In this case, it is about mineral resources. It is a horrible physical and societal wasteland, but it has incredible mineral reserves vital to such important playthings as iphones.
China has secured most of the mineral rights, and is building a rail line from Afghanistan into Pakistan (I think) to harvest their just reward.
Additionally, I have read there are over a million Afghan refugees living in Europe. Europe wanted them out, so making their 'homeland' more hospitable was seen as a cost-effective way of getting them to leave.
Paid for with the riches, blood, and limbs of the United States.
11-29-2013 | 10:57 AM
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According to open source press reports, Karzai wants: (my comments in blue)
1. All afghan prisoners at GitMo released back to Afghan. Uh, I think even Eric Holder won't sign off on that. Unlikely this will occur. Not after our leaders saying that this prisoners are witnesses and critical for intelligence debriefings and future criminal court proceedings ? Now we are just gonna "cut them loose" to Afghan control ? Negative Ghostrider
2. Karzai wants to sign deal in 2014. His term expires April 2014. USA wants "by end of 2013" aka 30 days. Basic disagreement exists on timeline. Karzai holds the cards, it is his signature that we want. We want it signed sealed and delivered by end of year due to logistics and planning and clearly we want it done before he leaves office. I doubt this happens in the next 30 days
3. He wants all raids on Afghan homes to stop by US troops. The exception if a "direct threat against troops exists" or similar language. I have images of a sniper hiding in a home, popping rounds at troops. However as we all know, many of these homes are hiding places for terrorists, enemy forces, etc. Locations of potential intelligence and evidentiary documents, etc. We also all know that child-bombers and women are used to attack troops. aka "civilians" however with malicious intentions. Not uniformed enemy soldiers. Karzai is calling for "the killing of civilians" to stop. Good Luck with these wishes.
My crystal-ball says chance of security agreement even happening is minimal and chance prior to Jan-1 is almost nonexistent.
1. All afghan prisoners at GitMo released back to Afghan. Uh, I think even Eric Holder won't sign off on that. Unlikely this will occur. Not after our leaders saying that this prisoners are witnesses and critical for intelligence debriefings and future criminal court proceedings ? Now we are just gonna "cut them loose" to Afghan control ? Negative Ghostrider
2. Karzai wants to sign deal in 2014. His term expires April 2014. USA wants "by end of 2013" aka 30 days. Basic disagreement exists on timeline. Karzai holds the cards, it is his signature that we want. We want it signed sealed and delivered by end of year due to logistics and planning and clearly we want it done before he leaves office. I doubt this happens in the next 30 days
3. He wants all raids on Afghan homes to stop by US troops. The exception if a "direct threat against troops exists" or similar language. I have images of a sniper hiding in a home, popping rounds at troops. However as we all know, many of these homes are hiding places for terrorists, enemy forces, etc. Locations of potential intelligence and evidentiary documents, etc. We also all know that child-bombers and women are used to attack troops. aka "civilians" however with malicious intentions. Not uniformed enemy soldiers. Karzai is calling for "the killing of civilians" to stop. Good Luck with these wishes.
My crystal-ball says chance of security agreement even happening is minimal and chance prior to Jan-1 is almost nonexistent.
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