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View Poll Results: How much student debt do you have?
$0.00
75
29.18%
$0.00 - $9,999
23
8.95%
$10,000 - $29,999
51
19.84%
$30,000 - $59,999
36
14.01%
$60,000 - $99,999
45
17.51%
$100,000+
27
10.51%
Voters: 257. You may not vote on this poll

Student Loan Debt

Old 06-14-2010, 05:19 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Blueskies21 View Post
It's really sad when there's a set of round trips and the heavy load is 7 people.... If there's one thing that the government is good at it's wasting money.
Thats what civics is all about. Using the collective wealth to take on projects/tasks that otherwise would not get done.
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:43 PM
  #22  
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Senate and House Bills are currently on the table to reverse the banking industry's heavily-lobbied Bankruptcy law change of 2005...the one that made private student loans non-dischargeable in bankruptcy:

Project on Student Debt: Letters/Petitions

If these bills pass, all Sallie Mae, Key Bank, Citi, etc. non-Federal student loans will once again become dischargeable in bankruptcy (which they were since the beginning of time until 2005).

I'm sure lots of you will go off on a tangent about personal responsibility--and I'm all for personal responsibility...

I'll say this pre-emptively--if anyone on here wants to go on a rant about how an individual citizen shouldn't be able to discharge debts they cannot afford, then I want an explanation of why a corporate entity blessed with the rights of an individual is able to do the same exact thing even more easily...

Additionally, if you think bankruptcy is simply a handout--think again--bankruptcy acts as a strong disincentive to businesses to make loans to people who can't afford them...looking back on the financial crisis and worst recession we've had in our lifetimes, it is very hard to argue for wildly unregulated capitalism...controls such as bankruptcy laws might be "socialist" to the naysayers, but rational incentives and disincentives are necessary for the functioning of a free market system...

If you don't want individual bankruptcy as a possibility for irresponsible borrowers, then you should push for stricter limitations on corporate bankruptcy...if I can't declare bankruptcy, Key Bank can't either...enough said...
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:01 AM
  #23  
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Funny thing about it is the people who go off on tangents about personal responsibility are the ones who were hired at just the right time, upgraded in 10 months, and are now making 6+ year captain pay and have paid off their loans (sorry for the run-on sentence). They are preaching about responsibility to people who have done the EXACT same thing as them, but at a different time, and are now reserve / furloughed FO's who now owe way more in interest because of a lack of upgrading and ability to pay off their loan. I seriously doubt anybody took out a loan thinking "I will only make $20K/year, but thats okay, I'll make it work". It was probably more like "Damn, $60K loan is a lot, but I'll be a captain within 2 years making $60K+/year, so I'll be able to pay that off without a problem."

Food for thought:
When I was hired, they told my class that we would probably be back in the school house in 8-10 months for upgrade. By the time I started IOE, hiring had completely stopped. 3 years later, I'm a reserve F/O with no line in sight, and no upgrade anywhere near the horizon. This stuff happens. Luckily for me, I've been able to pay loan payments.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:24 AM
  #24  
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I am fortunate that I got a job that pays me better than if I had stayed at AWAC and upgraded at my longevity, and that my wife also has a good job.

That said, even as a probationary FO making $25k and with my wife in a dead-end, entry-level job making less than that we were still able to pay extra every month on our student loans...while putting 10% into my 401k and bolstering our savings. The key to doing this is budgeting for no more than basic monthly guarantee, living well below your means, and NOT HAVING ANY ADDITIONAL DEBT!

While it is VERY true that luck and timing plays a big role in financial security...but even those with meager incomes can pay down debt & create wealth with strict financial discipline.

After all, how many "broke regional FOs" do you folks know that have iPhones?
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:32 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by ehaeckercfi View Post
Funny thing about it is the people who go off on tangents about personal responsibility are the ones who were hired at just the right time, upgraded in 10 months, and are now making 6+ year captain pay and have paid off their loans (sorry for the run-on sentence). They are preaching about responsibility to people who have done the EXACT same thing as them, but at a different time, and are now reserve / furloughed FO's who now owe way more in interest because of a lack of upgrading and ability to pay off their loan. I seriously doubt anybody took out a loan thinking "I will only make $20K/year, but thats okay, I'll make it work". It was probably more like "Damn, $60K loan is a lot, but I'll be a captain within 2 years making $60K+/year, so I'll be able to pay that off without a problem."

Food for thought:
When I was hired, they told my class that we would probably be back in the school house in 8-10 months for upgrade. By the time I started IOE, hiring had completely stopped. 3 years later, I'm a reserve F/O with no line in sight, and no upgrade anywhere near the horizon. This stuff happens. Luckily for me, I've been able to pay loan payments.
One of the best posts I've read in a long time. Thanks for the perspective.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:35 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ehaeckercfi View Post
Funny thing about it is the people who go off on tangents about personal responsibility are the ones who were hired at just the right time, upgraded in 10 months, and are now making 6+ year captain pay and have paid off their loans
No...sometimes they are from people that were taught that you don't live the American dream on credit - and this includes buying a car, a house, an RV, or any other *guy toys* especially that are above your pay scale. I don't care if you borrow it - matter of fact - *educational debt and real estate debt* used to be looked on as the only good types of **good** debt (if there is such a thing)
I think PEOPLE, and like the other poster mentioned too, CORPORATIONS ought to be held responsible for their debts. If declaring bankruptcy and then paying the price is the system set then so be it.

Are you really saying that people should not be responsible for their debts?

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Old 06-15-2010, 07:40 AM
  #27  
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$0. Went to the University of Texas. I always had a full time job in college (first on the ramp for a commuter airline then as a flight attendant for a certain Dallas based airline). I got two Pell Grants that covered a couple of semester's worth of tuition.

I only got a certificate or rating when I could afford it. I would save up the money and then go the the local Mom and Pop Part 61 school and pay cash for the training. Of course you could rent a Cessna 150 for about $28 an hour back then so flying was pretty cheap.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:57 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by cfitstew View Post
$0. Went to the University of Texas. I always had a full time job in college (first on the ramp for a commuter airline then as a flight attendant for a certain Dallas based airline). I got two Pell Grants that covered a couple of semester's worth of tuition.

I only got a certificate or rating when I could afford it. I would save up the money and then go the the local Mom and Pop Part 61 school and pay cash for the training. Of course you could rent a Cessna 150 for about $28 an hour back then so flying was pretty cheap.
So true....but then again minimum wage was $3.50/hr too!
I'm sure it is still more expensive today though.

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Old 06-15-2010, 08:09 AM
  #29  
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No student loan debt. Took ten years to go through state school and paid as I went. Engineering degree. Took 4 years to go from Private to CFI-I and paid for it as I went after college.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:12 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
So true....but then again minimum wage was $3.50/hr too!
I'm sure it is still more expensive today though.

USMCFLYR
For sure. I don't see how anyone can afford to learn how to fly these days.
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