SkyHigh

I have owned several planes for almost two decades and Was happy to get rid of my Taylorcraft and get a 150 again.

It is nice to have a parts manual and several suppliers of parts again. Simple is better.

Skyhigh

jcaplins

financing is probably the least expensive part of owning. At 20k/year and without knowing the rest of your financial status, I would say it is a bad idea to purchase.

At the time I was a 100hr private pilot I bought a C-152. I used a home HELOC to pay for it (Dave Ramsey would kick me in the nuts for that).
Aviation loans typically go to 20 years with a minimum of 25k financed and 20% down (while still financing 25k min)

Insurance was $650 / year and later dropped to 450 after I had more hours and inst rating

Annual inspections were $2500, $750, $450, $1500, and $450 for the years I had the plane.

Pitot static checks cost about $350 (iirc) and I had to replace an altimeter ($800)

Tie down fee was $50 month.

Fuel is now ~4.50/gallon depending on where you live. calculating 6 gph, the fuel cost is $27 per hour.

Aviation oil, filters and spark plugs ar not cheap (plugs: 8 of them at $20 each)


I didn't realize any savings until I sold the plane. For me, after all was said and done, it turned out that I had a plane and only paid for fuel. I got lucky, the market went up, I had an overseas buyer that didn't negotiate on the price and I had zero problems with the engine.

so, 20k/year (to me) is way to low to purchase.

May want to look into clubs or partial share of something. Finance yourself, pay cash.


(just my 2 cents)

rotorhead1026

Unless you have a substantial amount of savings somewhere, you can't do this. You don't make enough money. Period. Take a deep breath, stop, and think. Rent when you can, save your money, and buy the airplane when you can afford it. Right now you're doing the same thing people were doing with houses a few years ago. You'll wind up foreclosed too, with a bad credit history that'll make financial security even harder to obtain in the future. YOU DON'T NEED AN AIRPLANE!

And, hell, unless you fly at least 100 hours/year (see post above) it'll cost more per hour to own than rent. You can't even afford to fly ONE hour, according to your first post. My goodness ...

highnpressurizd

Looked at owning a few years ago, I came up with a break even in the neighborhood of 150 hours a year. My wife and I were bringing home nearly 9k a month, 2k was tax free, Nearly 7k disposable, no debt. We thought we could afford an airplane easy! Then we crunched some numbers. With our work schedules we figured we would fly about 10 hours a month, and that was really making a commitment to go fly often. When we included all the standard costs, plus a mx and overhaul reserve, it was MUCH CHEAPER to rent. Additionally, we could rent a much nicer airplane than we were going to be able to afford to buy. Life changes, my wife is out of the Navy and a stay at home mom, my upgrade didn't happen when I hoped it would and our take home is now half of what it was. We are doing jut great, but we wouldn't be if we had bought an airplane. We took the cash we saved up, put a sizable down payment on a house and now have a mortgage payment (including T&I) of $670 a month. I was nearly furloughed with a one month old baby, it was a wonderful feeling to know that my unemployment would cover my mortgage and utilities easily. My point is that just because you have the money (and the OP doesn't), doesn't mean that you should spend it. I still want an airplane really bad, but it was one of the best things I never bought.

Lab Rat

Other than a house, I would not purchase ANYTHING that requires me to finance it - especially an airplane.

N9373M

I've always been hamstrung when renting. Try renting for a week or more. Not many places will do that, or charge a minimum per day whether you put time on the hobbes or not.

Ownership, while expensive does permit some flexibility. Try going somewhere for a week, or getting a wild hair and flying at midnight.

Phil1111

Agree completely Tony.

I assume that you have no living expenses and are totally dedicated to the operation of this AC. Perhaps you are going to instruct in it and get insurance for that?

Certainly it would take a total financial commitment on your part and you would be unlikely to find a lender for such an endeavor.

hindsight2020

The other thing people aren't looking at is the financing game has changed. Minimum loan amounts these days are 25K and they won't finance for 20 years unless the amounts exceed 50K depending on the lender. So you're looking at 10 year loans for the low amounts. You get car loans with better rates for that amount. So there's certainly a lack of financing market for the under 50K aircraft out there.

As to the costs year by year, no doubt renting is way cheaper. Just like homes, renting allows you to stop-start-stop your costs on command. If you finance you're stuck with that amount month after month. One bad month and you're now sweating. Forget that. And good luck selling anything in this market. I have a C-150, a ratted out one, and paid cash for it. About the only thing I get out of the premium I pay over renting is that I have access to it on command. That's about it. These things are the cheapest certified contraption out there for flying, and it's still a money pit. 800 for gyro overhaul/replacement. 450 dollars for wiring harness. 250 for a battery. Another 350 for tires. insurance is about the only cheap thing (for me was 450/yr with only $16K hull coverage) and I run mogas so it's about 2.60/gal. If you run 100LL then forget it, my gas costs would double or I would fly half as much, which would increase my per hour cost on top of it. Then there are transponder checks and pitot static checks. I'm gonna plead the fifth on those and leave it at that . Bottom line, nickle and dime, nickle and dime.

Truth is nobody expected these 70s vintage contraptions to be the workhorses of recreational General Aviation in 2010. As such, they are mx prone because everything in them is old, brittle and due for replacement. But even after you overhaul everything you still have a 40 yo airplane. Cessna calls a 162 affordable...gimme a break. I guess I'll continue to swallow asbestos and whatever crap comes out of my air vents everytime I touch the thing, in my C150 for the premium of not paying 110K for a 2010 de facto 150. Oh an the engine is one failure away from putting the thing in the scrapyard...blow-by for sure in one or more cylinder, cylinders are 400 a pop, A&P wants to clean your savings account everytime you have to open the cowling....no way I'm putting 15-20K on an airplane I paid 15K for.....and surprise surprise, I don't have 15K to dump on an 50 year old O-200 technology engine, nor I would want to (I have the 15K, but not for that...). That said, neither do most "aircraft owners". We're all one overhaul away from shortselling these rat traps...I want to go places, 90kts and 400fpm single pilot on a good day is simply not a useful way to get any fun out of traveling. So consider your mission. Putzing around the home field gets old quick.

Yea, in your situation even a ratted out C-150 would be a hardship. And for all it's worth, it might not even fit your mission profile (have you ever tried going somewhere on a certified two seater?...It's painful). Just rent. I would if the local FBO wasn't a total scumbag. 120/hr for a 172M with no IFR GPS? I'll play flight simulator instead....

I've garnered some passion for the experimental RVs as it's truly a useful airplane as far as being fun, fast and simple system based. But their purchase price is way out of my tolerance level. I echo the sentiments here, financing is not something I really wish for myself in the aircraft arena, considering all these ongoing operating costs. I could afford to finance it, but not use it. I could afford to use it, but not finance it. It's a freggin catch-22.

I did the numbers when comparing to the median renter and realized recreational flying is simply beyond the reach of the median wage earner. I made monthly cost benchmarks: 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500/mo. That is the kind of monthly amortized-to-annual outlay of cash the activity of flying takes out of your net home income every month. Most renters fell in the 500-750/mo catgeory, many on much much less. Owning a 150 is on 500/mo catgeory, and I'm not getting any of my mission profile out of it. 1000/mo? Most people simply can't afford a continual outlay of cash in that regime for occassional monthly flying. They simply can't. That's where the majority of your vintage rat traps fall under. Then you have the truly useful and expensive ships, those are the 1500/mo and above category. As you can see, it's unaffordable.

On 20K/yr income. Brother, no way no how. It can't be done responsibly. You won't even get financing. even if you could you shouldn't do it. I hear ya it sucks. You gotta make more money.

Poke Pilot

Great post hindsight! This is absolutity the reason the financial system is in the mess it is right now. The only thing people should finance is a home unless your car dies or something, then go buy an old cheap one.
20K a year is not enough for owenership.
+1

aviatormjc

Aircraft ownership is expensive and not practical in many applications, but how can we dull the pain in ownership?

A long while back I looked into the cost of becoming a certified A&P mechanic and found the cost to be around at the time $18,000 for a 2yr program. How much $ could we save if we were certified to do our own work, repairs, overhauls? And then there would be only the cost of parts...$18,000 for a certification should save a lot of labor costs in a $10,000 engine overhaul.

Secondly an airplane is not a car and we will not use it everyday. Partnership makes a lot of sense to me. You will still have the freedom to use the aircraft most of the time but can divide the cost between a partner. And with YOU being the A&P, you can also factor in the cost of the parts and your labor with your partner which would be much less if the two of you had the work done by someone else.

And finally, I agree with everyone that an aircraft should be paid with cash and not financed.

What does everyone else think about this?