Originally Posted by OnTheMeridian (Post 3508837)

I've been with the company longer than anyone else on this thread. Never cleaned dog poop out of the carpet. Also never had a 7-day tour (or even a 5-day tour), where I worked 14/10 every day.

Best there is? That's pretty subjective depending on what a person wants out of a flying job. It's the best there is FOR ME. But I certainly don't apply my standards to anyone else.

As someone else said, there are certainly pros and cons to this job. If you don't like it, you can certainly make a 'cons' list that's a longer than the 'pros' list. Everyone should keep an open mind and make their own determinations.

Some of the 'cons' people list really aren't that bad anyway. I haven't cleaned dog poop, but I've wiped a lot of pee dribbles off toilet seats over the years. Still do. It's not my favorite part of the job, but it's literally about 15 seconds of cleaning with a thick rag and latex gloves. Nothing touches my skin and it's over quickly. No big deal. Loading 800# of bags in Nassau in August sucks a lot worse. But even then, it's not every leg every day. Smokers on the plane royally sucks! Wearing the O2 mask the entire time is uncomfortable and even though I keep that stuff out of my lungs, my uniform ends up smelling like an ashtray. Nasty! But here again, I'd say if I do 4 flights a year with smokers it's a lot. It doesn't happen anywhere near enough to have me saying the job is terrible because of it. Long days? Yeah. But here again, not every long day feels bad. Many times I wake up refreshed and ready to go, so being busy make the day go by faster. And if I'm dragging my back end halfway through I call fatigued. Done it a bunch over the years and never been disciplined. People make the argument that it's a crap job because we shouldn't be scheduled in such a way to need a fatigue call. In many cases I don't disagree with that thought. Scheduling could certainly use some big improvements. But, we have the tools to not be run into the ground, which is more than can be said about most flying jobs out there. The company has been dropping the ball a lot on crew food. That definitely needs fixing! As I said, nothings perfect. But here again, we have so many tools to get nourishment, and without paying out of our own pockets, it isn't the big deal the usual whiners want you to believe it is. Be proactive and set up your own food. That's what per diem is for. If you can wait, get a deviation and get your own food later. There's Ubereats, Doordash and a host of other technological solutions. Set the parking brake and go get something (no problem with this, even with pax there. Just be smart about how you do it). Lots of options.

Point being, the job is what you make it. It can be a fun adventure every other week with challenges to keep us sharp and alert, or you can view it as a drag and a miserable experience where no one cares about you and its just a way of killing time until you die.

Originally Posted by shrsailplanes (Post 3508627)

While having 1800hrs in the E175 helped tremendously in flying a new jet, having a 121 background has been a real drag when trying to assimilate into netjets culture.

My own, personal experience has been that my background has not been very welcome by CA’s I’ve flown with. I don’t even talk about it anymore unless I’m asked directly about it, because it totally changes the mood. I get it thrown in my face all the time and I’m coming up on a year. “This ain’t the airlines. You can’t do [insert whatever is making then ****ed at the moment].”

I think they mostly project onto me that I’m lazy, that I don’t want to work or that I don’t know what I’m doing simply because the airport lacks a tower.

I concede that I may just totally suck at my job and that’s why I get hassled all the time. I didn’t seem to have this problem at all at my last job. It’s been my biggest roadblock so far.

Originally Posted by OnTheMeridian (Post 3508837)

I've been with the company longer than anyone else on this thread. Never cleaned dog poop out of the carpet. Also never had a 7-day tour (or even a 5-day tour), where I worked 14/10 every day.

Best there is? That's pretty subjective depending on what a person wants out of a flying job. It's the best there is FOR ME. But I certainly don't apply my standards to anyone else.

As someone else said, there are certainly pros and cons to this job. If you don't like it, you can certainly make a 'cons' list that's a longer than the 'pros' list. Everyone should keep an open mind and make their own determinations.

Some of the 'cons' people list really aren't that bad anyway. I haven't cleaned dog poop, but I've wiped a lot of pee dribbles off toilet seats over the years. Still do. It's not my favorite part of the job, but it's literally about 15 seconds of cleaning with a thick rag and latex gloves. Nothing touches my skin and it's over quickly. No big deal. Loading 800# of bags in Nassau in August sucks a lot worse. But even then, it's not every leg every day. Smokers on the plane royally sucks! Wearing the O2 mask the entire time is uncomfortable and even though I keep that stuff out of my lungs, my uniform ends up smelling like an ashtray. Nasty! But here again, I'd say if I do 4 flights a year with smokers it's a lot. It doesn't happen anywhere near enough to have me saying the job is terrible because of it. Long days? Yeah. But here again, not every long day feels bad. Many times I wake up refreshed and ready to go, so being busy make the day go by faster. And if I'm dragging my back end halfway through I call fatigued. Done it a bunch over the years and never been disciplined. People make the argument that it's a crap job because we shouldn't be scheduled in such a way to need a fatigue call. In many cases I don't disagree with that thought. Scheduling could certainly use some big improvements. But, we have the tools to not be run into the ground, which is more than can be said about most flying jobs out there. The company has been dropping the ball a lot on crew food. That definitely needs fixing! As I said, nothings perfect. But here again, we have so many tools to get nourishment, and without paying out of our own pockets, it isn't the big deal the usual whiners want you to believe it is. Be proactive and set up your own food. That's what per diem is for. If you can wait, get a deviation and get your own food later. There's Ubereats, Doordash and a host of other technological solutions. Set the parking brake and go get something (no problem with this, even with pax there. Just be smart about how you do it). Lots of options.

Point being, the job is what you make it. It can be a fun adventure every other week with challenges to keep us sharp and alert, or you can view it as a drag and a miserable experience where no one cares about you and its just a way of killing time until you die.

Originally Posted by C2078 (Post 3508892)

I have been gone a few years now, but this is an excellent synopsis. I might of been more critical of the job when I left, but certainly acknowledge the financial aspect of the job has improved. I used to fatigue as needed, without abuse, and never got crap for it.

For the prospective folks, NJ is a good job with good benefits, it’s not perfect just like any other job. It depends which factors are important for you. Fly from home is huge, as is medical/dental at no cost, to list a couple. Nice equipment, generally good folks, nice perks. And at least for now, ability to make as much money as desired.

Bottom line. You may like corporate flying, you may not, you may like providing personalized service, or not. You may like entering airplane and turning left, etc. Pay is only one factor. Every pilot group should be attempting to improve their conditions, as it helps the industry in general. Many people exaggerate the reality of the job. I have seen a few posts where folks list actual, factual info, which helps potential applicants.

Meridian posted great info, unlike Das Auto which obviously lives in Narnia. When people like Das Auto twist the facts so blatantly, it doesn’t help anyone.

Originally Posted by Peabody17 (Post 3508815)

Where do I start that LONG list of things...LOL. [wink]

Originally Posted by shrsailplanes (Post 3508627)

While having 1800hrs in the E175 helped tremendously in flying a new jet, having a 121 background has been a real drag when trying to assimilate into netjets culture.

My own, personal experience has been that my background has not been very welcome by CA’s I’ve flown with. I don’t even talk about it anymore unless I’m asked directly about it, because it totally changes the mood. I get it thrown in my face all the time and I’m coming up on a year. “This ain’t the airlines. You can’t do [insert whatever is making then ****ed at the moment].”

I think they mostly project onto me that I’m lazy, that I don’t want to work or that I don’t know what I’m doing simply because the airport lacks a tower.

I concede that I may just totally suck at my job and that’s why I get hassled all the time. I didn’t seem to have this problem at all at my last job. It’s been my biggest roadblock so far.

Originally Posted by Richmond454 (Post 3513170)

I read this post and wanted to mention that I have the exact same experience. Coming from the airlines I found the training at FSI to be pleasant experience. The IOE captains were awesome. But once I got on the line it hasn't been all roses and sunshine. First few months I was figuring out my way around the plane/flying/customer service/ unusual things that this type flying requires that the airlines didn't. Some captains were great and patient. I leaned a lot. More than a few were not great and I just spend a whole tour trying to conform to how he wants to do things. By day 4 I'm ready to blow my brains out.

My experience with the company has been great overall OPS, travel, all the support staff in general.

I've flown with some guys that's made tours go by in the blink of an eye. We laugh, go out to eat, he trusts me to fly and do my job so the tour goes smoothly.

In the first few months after a series of tours with guys that were wrapped super tight around the axle I started doubting whether I was a competent pilot at all. Everyone wanted things done their way and nothing I did was right.

I realized after I got comfortable with flying the plane and how the day to day operations work it wasn't me that was the problem but it was the 20 plus year captains that was unhappy for whatever reason and brought it into the cockpit. I push back a lot now on these guys and have pulled myself off in the middle of a trip because the guy was a raging ass----.

I know every company has these guys but it seems I run into more here. Just my luck I guess. But like everyone says if you don't like your situation then do something about it. So I've decided to put applications back in at the airlines. I've applied to all the majors and LCC.

So besides sharing/whining about my experience and to answer the original OP question I'm on an older fleet that has low FDP, what would make me consider staying is if there was a significant increase in base pay. My FDP is no where near my classmates on the latitude. At the 1 year mark I didn't break 100k. My classmates in the latitude or challenger are between 120-140. Upgrade also needs to go down significantly. I don't wanna spend another 6-8 years hoping to have good tours. 7 days is a long time to deal with the wrong person. At least at the airlines it'll be over with in 4 days.

Sorry if this seemed like whining but just sharing my experience.

Originally Posted by Richmond454 (Post 3513170)

I read this post and wanted to mention that I have the exact same experience. Coming from the airlines I found the training at FSI to be pleasant experience. The IOE captains were awesome. But once I got on the line it hasn't been all roses and sunshine. First few months I was figuring out my way around the plane/flying/customer service/ unusual things that this type flying requires that the airlines didn't. Some captains were great and patient. I leaned a lot. More than a few were not great and I just spend a whole tour trying to conform to how he wants to do things. By day 4 I'm ready to blow my brains out.

My experience with the company has been great overall OPS, travel, all the support staff in general.

I've flown with some guys that's made tours go by in the blink of an eye. We laugh, go out to eat, he trusts me to fly and do my job so the tour goes smoothly.

In the first few months after a series of tours with guys that were wrapped super tight around the axle I started doubting whether I was a competent pilot at all. Everyone wanted things done their way and nothing I did was right.

I realized after I got comfortable with flying the plane and how the day to day operations work it wasn't me that was the problem but it was the 20 plus year captains that was unhappy for whatever reason and brought it into the cockpit. I push back a lot now on these guys and have pulled myself off in the middle of a trip because the guy was a raging ass----.

I know every company has these guys but it seems I run into more here. Just my luck I guess. But like everyone says if you don't like your situation then do something about it. So I've decided to put applications back in at the airlines. I've applied to all the majors and LCC.

So besides sharing/whining about my experience and to answer the original OP question I'm on an older fleet that has low FDP, what would make me consider staying is if there was a significant increase in base pay. My FDP is no where near my classmates on the latitude. At the 1 year mark I didn't break 100k. My classmates in the latitude or challenger are between 120-140. Upgrade also needs to go down significantly. I don't wanna spend another 6-8 years hoping to have good tours. 7 days is a long time to deal with the wrong person. At least at the airlines it'll be over with in 4 days.

Sorry if this seemed like whining but just sharing my experience.

Originally Posted by Richmond454 (Post 3513170)

So I've decided to put applications back in at the airlines. I've applied to all the majors.