Encore, XLS and Phenom 300 @ Netjets
 

Looks like a buddy has an upcoming Netjets interview. On the other aviation board someone from Netjets mentioned the majority of people in a recent class got placed in the XLS, Phenom and Encore. Having never flown any of these myself, can people provide comments about life on these fleets at Netjets? Buddy is not large or overweight - maybe 5 ft 9 inches and 160 lbs (I know all of those aircraft are tight up front). And yes, he is aware of the continuing contract negotiation challenges and management issues.

What are the pros & cons of each of these fleet types? How often will you fly on each fleet? If you fly one of these types, what do you like and dislike about it?

PMs also welcome.

Doesn't really matter as you will have no choice in aircraft assignments. All fleets work hard right now. Obviously it is nice to have an APU. In the fractional world you can really only upgrade owners so the bigger the plane the more you fly but like I said all fleets are busy. Upon hire you are locked into your fleet for 39 months.

That's not really true about only upgrading owners. Yes, if the company is put in that position, then an equal or upgraded plane is necessary. However, there are many, many times where the owner of a larger plane requests a downgrade for a trip where flying the larger plane is unnecessary.

I've only flown the XL at NetJets, so I can't give you much perspective about other fleets.

The XL(S) is the largest fleet. If the one you are flying breaks, there's another one not too far away. It is a busy fleet. In the past it was one of the busiest, but with new pilots coming aboard, it doesn't seem as bad as it was.

If you like long, boring legs, this is not the fleet for you. My quarterly reports show average legs are about 75 minutes and I average about 2.5 legs per day over the long term, but 5 leg days are not all that unusual. The XL flies a good mix of big airports/small airports and even after all these years, still go to places I've never heard of/been.

The XL's baggage compartment is a good-news/bad-news deal. The bad news is that passengers count on the large capacity and bring huge amounts of stuff that have to be loaded/unloaded. The good news is that when 2 SUV's show up, there's a place to put it all without having to tell the pax that it has to be shipped Fedex/UPS.

It has an APU, but the cockpit is still quite hot on summer days on the ground.

The airplane was never designed for NetJets' operation. It has drain masts that split your skull when you go to open the baggage compartment, the baggage door has a key-lock and four latches that have to be done/undone for baggage access, the cabin is "stand-up, if you're not too tall, everything in the cabin and cockpit is "dinky" and easily broken. A lot of the maintenance write-ups involve items that were under-designed for hard usage. If you can imagine a C-172 being used like a Greyhound bus....that's NetJet's XL fleet.

It's certainly the worst flying airplane I've ever flown. Some guys love it....take your pick. Switches in the cockpit are counter-intuitive and the cockpit layout is not conducive to smooth crew coordination. The automation is, by today's standards, pretty bad. There's no tiller and the brakes work differently on the XL and the XLS. Autopilot is primitive, no WAAS and the FMS is very quirky and takes time to learn all the traps. The two position stabilizer (or, as I prefer to call it, de-stabilizer) takes getting used to and was obviously added as a "fix" after the airplane was designed. Having said that, the XL fleet would still be my first choice because of the trips it flies and the pilot group is largely without a lot of....er, "characters".

Mooneymite,

Great review! Exactly the level of detail and opinion that is helpful to people on these boards. Would love to see comparable reviews of the Phenom and Encore from Netjets pilots - or other XL/S opinions.

The best thing to tell him is its random but they all pay the same, the class on 3/9 was split up in the following way:

CE-680 - 7
CE-560EP - 2
CE-560E - 2
EMB-505S - 8
H800XP - 4

I have been on three fleets, I prefer the bigger fleets as its less work doing a transcon and maybe another flight, not 5 legs with three of them passenger legs. Its really whatever they can fit into 14 hours of duty. During the interview he will probably have a chance to take a look at some of the airplanes when they show you around CMH hangar. Whatever fleet he is assigned to it will be longer than 39 months before he will hold a bid to something else, 90% of the seniority list is off seat lock and the company isn't putting out any substantial bids, unless you get displaced. I believe the training in the CE-560XL is backed up so the next class will likely have some XL slots.

The Phenom has the same mission and capabilities as the Excel, so trips will largely be the same as listed above. It has an equally large baggage area as well. It has very modern avionics, FADEC engines, conventional swept-wing handling, and the autopilot does a very good job compared with the Excel. Cabin cross section is small but the pax seats have plenty of legroom. The cockpit is small but you can make certain adjustments in cruise to stretch your legs. Additionally, you can display charts on the panel so there's very little fumbling with the ipad in the cockpit. There is no electric cabin heat so the only way to get warm in the winter is to run an engine. I used to fly the Excel, overall I miss the larger cabin but that's about it.

The mighty XL is certainly unique, but the trip variety is attractive, it's the only corporate jet I have ever flown,mooney mite was pretty spot on.

Encore Fleet
 

Hi everyone, I was in the 02/09/15 new hire class and was assigned to the Encore fleet. I'm currently awaiting IOE. Could you shed some light on QOL, mission, etc. For the fleet I'm assigned to? Thanks!

So we're the bigger airplanes awarded to the higher seniority in the class or just randomly?

The XLS is the biggest POS that I've ever flown. Period. Fortunately for me the nightmare is about to end.

The Encore tends to be a regional aircraft. If you live on the West Coast you tend to stay out West. Anyone living east of DEN will generally spend the week on the East Coast. You will fly anywhere between 3-5 legs per day, 1.7 average leg length and about half of the legs are empty. It is a small fleet so you will soon know most of people in the fleet.

Welcome!

It's random. I was in the first few seniority wise in my class and was assigned to a small aircraft. Remember, pay is the same so who cares. :) I'm just glad to be here.

Thanks Illini, I live in Dallas so Teterboro is going to be my second home it sounds like. Yeah me! Lol!

WarEagle,

Yep. Additionally Netjets has been getting pretty good lately about utilizing you on the first and last day. Being in Dallas they shouldn't have too much trouble getting you to or from the airplane so I would probably anticipate flying a leg or two on your first and last day.

IP

All good replies. Sounds like the XLS and Phenom fleets can be very busy. I saw a few newhires on the list provided got the Sovereign, Hawker and X. Understanding everyone is generally busy, how does life vary on these fleets? How do current pilots on these fleets like the airplane and the flying?

I've been in the Sovereign and XL fleets. The Sovereign is a 7 hour airplane with a tiny cockpit and the XL is probably the biggest POS ever built. Both had considerable roles in my decision to leave. That and I hated being a Jack of all trades whipping boy. I hated both of these airplanes with a passion. Cessna should stick with building 172's. 91k is well suited for some but not for me. I genuinely wish those who do hitch their wagons to NJA the best of luck. The new guys should take advantage of the fatigue policy. Too many guys here will run ragged with 12 hours on/10 off. Get your rest and fly safe!

Flightaware is a good place to see what kind of flying each fleet does. Even the larger airplanes don't do much longer flights. Pax legs are 2 hourish and repos are an hour or less usually. 2-4 legs a day. 12 hours on/12 hours off is my norm but it varies wildly.

Good point about Flightaware. Also helpful would be perceived pros/cons of the Sovereign, Hawker and X by pilots who have flown them. Obviously each aircraft has its idiosyncrasies and it would be helpful to newhires to hear opinions early.

I am guessing Macjet was not a fan of the Excel.

Don't think MacJet is a fan of life. In his defense the Sovereign is the worst hand flying plane on earth. Great performance but that is it. The Hawker is a better machine. No experience with the X. Change is the name of the game. If you don't like it you won't like NJ.

The XL is idiosyncratic , and that is putting it mildly, boots on the tail, hot wings, movable stab, blazing .75 Mmo, but it does have a semi stand up cabin, and an APU, there are still nice moments on these tours the one leg days with the 1pm shows ( occasionally), balanced with the 5 leg days and 0430 am shows, Aspen, Akron, and everywhere in between, plus the islands, Mexico, and Canada, questions?

Just to clear something up, you do not get a choice, you get assigned and that's it. If you don't like your assignment then you may just want to keep applying elsewhere, it'll be a while. I've been on three fleets (one is gone), I prefer the X over the XL, I found it more comfortable, I prefer longer legs, less podunk overnights. It is so much a personal preference thing, everyone you talk to will give you a different answer. I am currently in the XL with no seat lock and have a standing bid in on anything bigger as an FO (anything as a CA). You are more just coming to the company, the fleet is not why you come to NetJets. Unless you have some free time and want to get a type. If you accept a class thinking you are going to be sexy flying the X, you are making a really bad decision. I'll pick two random tours in each fleet, I can not include all of the changes that were proposed each day, or why tail swaps happened:

X
Day one: 11:17a show, Airline WN PBI-TPA, taxi to PIE, fly pax PIE-BED 2.3, off at 9:38p, Doubletree
Day two: 9:48a show, ferry BED-BNA 2.4, pax KBNA-TXKF 2.3, ferry TXKF-KPBI 2.6, off at 8:56p, Marriott
Day three: 8:00a show, pax PBI-CMA 5.0, off at 4:42p, Hampton Inn
Day four: 7:15a show, limo CMA-VNY, Pax VNY-SBP-VNY 1.2, ferry VNY-LAX 0.3, off at 6:11p, Hilton
Day five: 4:00p show, airline VX LAX-SFO, rental car SFO-APC , pax APC-SLC 1.4, off at 1:43a, Hilton
Day six: 3:30p show, airport standby, off at 10:00pm, Hilton
Day seven: 8:12a show, airline DL SLC-ATL-PBI, off at 8:27p

XL
Day one: 7:00a show, limo PBI-FLL, airline US FLL-PHL, Uber PHL-PNE, off 6:30pm, Crown Plaza
Day two: 6:15a show, pax PNE-FRG-CON-FRG-PNE 3.2, off 4:53p, Crown Plaza
Day three: 8:30a show, pax PNE-PBI 3.6, ferry PBI-07FA 0.5, off 4:40p, ORC Hotel
Day four: 9:00a show, pax 07FA-PBI 0.6, ferry PBI-OCF 0.8, pax OCF-SAV 0.9, ferry SAV-GSO 0.9, limo GSO-MEB, off 8:30p Hampton Inn
Day five: 11:00a show, pax MEB-PBI 1.7, pax PBI-OCF 0.8, ferry OCF-SUA 0.7, pax SUA-BED 2.8, off 10:35p, Hilton Garden Inn
Day six: 5:00p show, taxi BED-BOS, ferry BOS-BED 0.5, off 8:46p, Embassy Suites
Day seven: 10:30a show, pax BED-TEB 1.1, limo TEB-LGA, airline DL LGA-PBI, off 9:45p


Is that what you were looking for?

I love life but came to hate my job at NetJets. I got so sick of week long tours loading bags, wiping down cabinets, stocking the galley with alcohol, water, food tools, salt, ice, beer, vinegar, wine, plates, catering etc and then having to stock nuts, cookies, etc in every arm rest and seat tray, and then having to screw with back stocking the cabinet. Not to mention having to deal with their pets, cars, or standing over my shoulder on the flight deck. I was a pilot 10% of the time and a baggage handler, house keeping, and waitress the rest of the time. NetJets is a decent job and the guys are under paid but I really grew very tired of the whole operation. I know others enjoy it and my opinion is my own and not a blanket feeling of the entire pilot group. But I couldn't see myself doing that job for another year much less another twenty. I left and haven't been happier. And the XL does actually fly worse than the 680.

The XL is definitely not the cream of the crop.

MacJet. I was just messing with you. I too hate that stuff but it is the best I can do until something better comes along. Like I tell everyone flying is such a small part of the job at NJ. You are a flight attendant/lineboy who gets to fly sometimes, especially if you are paired up with the wrong guy.

NZNV's post is right on. Don't come here for the airplane because like I said in a previous post you don't get to pick anyway and whatever plane they assign you you will be in it for 39 months at least.

No worries. The written word is hard to infer at times. Fly safe!

Day 5. 5 legs total (two with people). Broke jet x 3. That is all.

The Sovereign is an SUV. It can carry a big load out of small fields, go transcon with a smaller load. It's not the fastest jet out there but can do .80 after you burn off some fuel. I once flew 4 big guys and a lot of luggage out of Ocean Reef to Pawakee (-2 spelling) in the early afternoon in August. Not many jets can do that. The avionics and automation are just average, nothing special, but ok. Never had any beefs about hand flying, but maybe I'm just an above average stick (LOL). The line was "If you have a house in Telluride and one in NJ and needed a plane to ferry mom and 3 kids (plus nanny and dogs and all their stuff) back and forth, the 680 was your plane."

Macjet, you are in the wrong line of work. Go somewhere else. I did almost 40 years of major legacy flying. Maybe you would fit there. You would probably still ***** (You are a pilot, right?). Some people actually enjoy the frac life. When I started my airline career, people thought flying was something special and we tried to make it special. Over the years, it deteriorated to a bus line in the air. When I came to NJ, I loved the fact that we could make it special again. I told people that "If it's not unsafe or illegal, we can probably make it happen." Of course they paid for it. It's not for everyone. Getting up in the morning not knowing where you would sleep that night would bother some people. It required flexibility that some of my friends could not understand. Worked for me. To each his own.

Disclaimer: I was furloughed in 2010. The conditions at NJ under RTS were different than now. I hope they can get back to that culture.

Sailaway

Sailaway...well said.

I would rather be a limo driver than a bus driver.

Why do you feel the need to attack someone with a differing opinion or to offer unsolicited advice to someone you don't know? I've managed quite fine for a long time without your input. Feel free to voice your opinion but I couldn't care any less about your whimsical career advice. It may come as a surprise that some pilots have different perspectives, backgrounds, needs, and desires than yourself. I didn't like NJA and left. Others love it. I hope whatever you're doing now keeps you happy. Fly safe.

New hire here. Completed IOE yesterday. Yes, it's crazy busy at NJA. If it's not, then you should begin to worry. I found every NJ pilot and person associated with NJ to be welcoming, professional, and STILL happy to be here. My IOE Captain has been here for 16 years and I thoroughly enjoyed his attitude and flying with him. I choose to have a positive attitude, and will hold my head high as a new hire. Things will get better for us here at NJ. I honestly believe that. If you're not happy here, enjoy your jumpseat into Newark. To each his own, but don't try to drag me down with you. I say again, welcome to all the new hires! See you out there.........somewhere. :)

I am on the Hawker 800/900. We do break a lot, but when you have a good aircraft, you will fly your a$$ off. The Hawker has range, so you could be out west one minute and then get a brief of SNA to TEB. We do have a pretty good comfortable flight deck for a corporate jet (it helps, but still doesn't make 14 hour days enjoyable). The Collins FMS and autopilot on the aircraft is really nice. The only thing I don't like about the aircraft is the nose wheel and rudder pedals aren't connected. Once you get use to transferring controls at 80 kts, it's pretty good aircraft. Oh yeah... There is no baggage compartment, all bags are loaded in a closet. So we really don't get hammered will bags :D.

Lakingsfan13.

Excellent reply to the original questions. Very detailed and good review of your pros and cons of the Hawker. Everyone has different viewpoints and opinions of aircraft they fly or have flown.

I am sure many of us would love to hear more opinions and pros/cons of aircraft flown at Netjets.

At least Mooneymite and the other XLS pilots at Netjets have this to look forward to:

https://www.netjets.com/fleet/Cessna-Citation-Latitude/

Looks quite nice!!!! Will we see them on the line in 2015?

95% of the XL/XLS captains are awesome. Beware if you get one of the 5%ers. By that I mean guys that wont fatigue (or try to piggy back on your fatigue call), wont call in sick when sick, and fly broke airplanes all due to fear of perceived retribution or perceived pride.

Everyone else has pretty much nailed the sorry excuse of a jet airplane.

I have been flying the Phenom 300 for a bit and it is a nice aircraft. I came from an XLS prior to coming to NetJets and while I loved the XLS, I don't miss the APU in the least bit. The AC in the phenom works better than bleed air. The avionics are really nice, the 300 is the most advanced light/medium jet in the NJA fleet avionics wise. It is a really nice flying airplane, performance is great. Lack of a standup cabin sucks but oh well. The brakes take getting used to but trust me, TRs are not needed on this bird. I am 5.6" and I find the cockpit more roomy than the XLS. Those with long legs will have trouble though. It seems like it has a good fleet of captains as well.

I was out for 4 days in the Hawker and flew 2 legs. No MX issues...

Thank goodness the new Citation Latitude is on the way for all of the frustrated XLS pilots! I hear the Latitude is a big step-up for both the pilots and the passengers. How soon before we will see the Latitude in Netjet's colors? End of 2015?

Is it still a 10 year upgrade in any of the fleets?