135 ops?
 

Anybody heard whether or not there will be any cutbacks on the 135 side of the house?

Anyone find jobs yet?

5 Saab guys got the axe today, again out of seniority and "performance based," which of course is manager-ese for "I don't like you." Good luck out there, guys.

What did they say the reason for the axe was?

They are making reductions to get through the winter. They say pilot layoffs are done...5 saab people? Thought it was 4, of which 2 get to be mechanics...

Did 'Tamie' get the axe? Just curious...

Mr Pilot :)
 

Some people believe than Penair is very loyal with their employees , and left ERA hoping to go back to penair, sorry keep instructing Mr Pilot :)

No, they never do give a reason. Basically it comes down to who drinks the least of the PenAir kool-aid, gets the axe. Personal vendetta, schoolyard gossip, or maybe they just don't like your shoes. All are valid reasons for the firings. Performance has nothing to do with it. If it did, then that means they have had incompetent training and standards for years!! Penair is not run in a professional manner. It is still a small company, and personal issues trump being a professional manager. I would send out resume's but there is nothing out there right now, and I would just compete with those who really need another paycheck. Best of luck guys (& gals).

Note to noobs: when Penair has a ground school this spring, they will be your best friend and tell you how great it is in PenAir land. They are very convincing, but do not believe it!

Thanks for the Heads Up on the Pen Air Deal. Makes me really reconsider...

The s**t storm
 

Yep and management took a 10 percent pay cut........good for them, but I call BS. Once again things were done out of order. When is everyone going to man up and get a union going? The problem is that most of the people that fly for them are very simple. They don't understand the real world. It's like a child given a math equation, you can't expect them to solve it. Hopefully someone wakes up before the next ****** blizzard hits.

Anything new at PenAir? Has anything improved? Does anyone who works there LIKE working there, or is everyone miserable? Do you expect them to resume hiring in the spring? I imagine the QOL is different depending on if you are 121 or 135, and also which domicile you are in? I currently have about 1000 tt with almost 250 multi. By the end of March, I should have 1300-1500 total with 600-800 multi (all PIC). If hiring was normal, what would I probably get?

There is very little that is new at Penair. If you talk to management, the future appears quite rosy. If you fly the line though, it is a different story. There are a lot of flights every day with a lot of empty seats. Penair has tried to cut as much capacity as they can but there are three or four daily routes that only average 20-40% capacity. Supposedly there are 2 Saab 2000s that are going to be leased starting next summer, but everyone is wondering how we will pay for them.

In the last 6 months, Penair has fired 15 pilots and moved 2 pilots to A&P positions. Very little of this was done with regard to seniority of common sense. As such, morale is at an all time low. My time at Penair has seen very little in the way of positive morale and pride, but this is the worst it has been.

With your time, you would be placed in a 121 FO position with an ANC base. Upgrade to 121 PIC would be at least 5 years. There are guys right now that have been around 5 years that are still a year or two away from upgrading. I would definitely urge you to think about airlines other than Penair. They have been good to me, but they have really screwed a lot of people over. Without a union or any kind of standardized seniority practices, you spend every day looking over your shoulder. It is a sh**ty way to work.

Era seems like they have a lot going on right now. They don't pay as well, but they are really moving.

Fernando???

I don't think Fernando would vouch for ERA either :D

To those thinking about PenAir. Bring your own vasoline :eek:

You can do everything right, and still get screwed.

Company business plan.
 

Well here is the PenAir business plan if anyone’s interested;

HISTORY OF 2008:
6 million dollar loss…….Using GAAP (Generally accepted accounting practices) methodology we will show a loss for the past fiscal year. With GAAP we can show a loss using devaluation of assets. An example; imagine you own real estate valued at 50 million dollars last year and this year it’s only worth 45 million, which as we all know is the case in recent history. That’s a 5 million dollar loss . Lets say you have an aircraft worth 2 million last year and now it’s only worth 1.5. You get the point, it all adds up. Did we really lose 6 million dollars, not really…..That’s just what we want to tell the 18 pilots who were TERMINATED(Not furloughed) so we don’t feel as bad.
The company controller, who had been here for 15 years had to go. She said we shouldn’t get bigger toys and that made us mad.

THE BRIGHT FUTURE OF 2009:
Using capitol gained from the terminations, we plan on leasing 2 brand new Saab 2000’s. We thought about financing with a lender, but dang it no bank would loan us any money. JERKS! These aircraft will fit in quite well with our fleet reduction plan. After parking the last 3 Metros, which will be missed due to their likeliness of a dildo. As well as 3 Saab 340’s, we will see a net fleet reduction of 4 aircraft…..This is great because we will be able to give more flight crews the rubber fist termination treatment. And we know you’re wondering; of course we are going to do it out of seniority order again……Silly guys, you know we can’t predict the future next month.
PenAir is the greatest airline the state of Alaska has ever seen! Our passengers love usJ

Actually, our passengers hate us. I am generally reticent to tell people where I fly. I get sick of hearing stories of, "my bag got bumped", "my bag got lost", "we never got in", and my favorite "why did my CDB flight have to stop in DLG on the way home".

As for the Penair business plan, I will believe the 2000s when I see them. I don't doubt more terminations and aircraft parkings are in the future. With 10-14 Saab flights per day and 10 Saabs, how could a few of these things not get parked?

As for GAAP, that is how we know you aren't management. Simply put, Penair doesn't and will not hire trained accountants. We prefer to take office assistants and make them pencil whipping accountants. It is pretty bad when you talk to members of the banking community in Anchorage and they all chuckle at the scams Penair tries to pull. There is a reason banks won't give Penair money. They always try to avoid paying it back! Our new hanger even stopped construction because the contractor wasn't getting paid. It's pretty bad when you do flights out of town and the company president has to give you three personal credits cards and tells you what order to try them in. GAAP, give me a break.

The question will be how Penair is able to cope with adapting to a true 121 flt/duty schedule. (currently we fly 135 flt/duty times) The "do more with less" principle is a little harder to pull off with 100 hour months. It would also be interesting to watch Penair train and write a manual outside of their comfort zone. With only one or two college degrees between 10-15 members of upper management, it should be entertaining to watch a pipe dream be implemented with the precision of a finger painter.

Basically, Penair is an awful place to work. Job security is a joke. Management is generally incompetent. Passengers hate us. Go somewhere else. Better yet, pick a different line of work.

Wow. Thanks for the harsh reality check guys. I hope things improve for those who are still there.

That's humbling...sorry to hear it :-(

What did those "terminations" find for work, anybody know?

The Union is comming!!!!!!
 

Well they found something.......nothing really that great, but something. Well over the last few few weeks, myself and others have contacted ALPA reps and soon we will begin handing out information reguarding PenAir unionization. At this point I can't say anymore, but you all will be contacted in the near future.....more to come.


Your United Voice of Representation(YUVOR).......TT

I'm a pilot with PenAir and I'm curious as to your reasoning for wanting a union. Please expand and explain your thoughts. Everyone I have talked to about this so far says we're screwed if we become unionized and they'll be out of here. I'd like to gather all the facts before I have an opinion myself.

About F'in time! Like most people, I thought I could get in, get my upgrade and move on. I didn't really think I would be here this long, or be subject to the type of treatment some have received. I cannot see a downside to voting in a Union. Sure, they will take some of our money, but a little bit of job security and respect will be worth the price.

Ask some of those who were terminated for no reason if they would have liked to have some representation. I bet they would vote for a union about now!!

BTW: Most of those terminated are really struggling right now. Try explaining to another airline why you were fired from the last airline (out of senority) I know at least one of these people who have quit the whole airline game over this. Penair didn't just hurt their feelings, they ruined their career!

PLEASE vote in a Union!!!!!

give me a break. 2nd post? obviously you're with management or a management plant. do you think that you're actually fooling anyone?

Pros
 

PROS (commonly negotiated contract terms)
1) Furloughs – If your services are not required at a particular point in time;
a) Employment would be suspended and NOT terminated.
b) The decision of who will be furloughed would be entirely seniority based and not at the company’s convenience.
c) If furloughed, your original seniority number would remain unchanged.

2) Compensation
a) Based on seniority and position, NOT personally negotiated on a case by case basis.
b) An increase or decrease in pay would be negotiated as a group.

3) Scheduling
a) Would be done in a methodical, fair manner.
b) Coverage of open flights would be done in seniority order and not “whoever answers the phone most of the time”.
c) If a person fails to answer their phone on reserve, they will be responsible for a missed assignment. It’s not fair to get a call at 3am if your number four on reserve, because someone less senior wants to sleep in and doesn’t answer their phone !
d) Upgrades and aircraft assignments would be seniority based, not because someone thinks you would be better in a Saab or Metro.

4) Legal
a) If you are called to the chief pilot’s office, you may have a union representative accompany you if desired.
b) If an FAA action is possible, a union lawyer may be provided for counsel. If requested and free of charge.

These are only some samples....................Like I said, more information will be provided in the near future.........

Your friend and fellow pilot from down below........TT

Yeah I figured you'd say something like I'm in management.

Then don't post stupid questions. I know stupid people are out there but goodness. Do you honestly think the union debate is unique? There are more answers and responses to that question than perhaps any other question. Here's a hint on how to be a successful human being. Take initiative and do some work for yourself! Too many kids are Burger King generation....Have it your way!

Boy, you're a smart one. I am doing research for myself by asking the pros/cons from people. I don't have any experience flying for a company that has a union. Therefore, I'll develop an opinion for myself based on those who have experience with them. That's why I was asking about pros/cons. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

keep this positive
 

As I have said before in other posts -
The best forums are those where pilots actually help each other instead of using middle school playground antics to bully, call names, and put people down. There is a positive way to deal with these issues and educate entry level pilots or even experienced people that do not know what you might know about the consequences of their choices. If we cannot come together, then we are not helping anything. Those who would seek to keep downward pressure on our pay, benefits, retirement plans, and QOL are the only ones who benefit from our bickering. Let's keep this positive.

Well......Are you?

There goes the insults. I do be just smarted enough to fly aeroplane. You are not the first nor the last to ask the most popular question in the industry besides can I fly jets with 100 hours of flight time....Just do what the successful folk have done and take a minute, think, and work. You use search, you read, you learn and you become educated. But with your Whopper, you can have fries...Hey, you gotta have it your way!

Nope, 135 pilot :) Kind of out of the loop away from Anchorage. Talked to Saab pilots flying in and they said they haven't heard any talk what so ever about a union. Said you're probably just starting problems ;)

I had always heard management would shut down the airline if we ever went union...

don't mess with my job i like it here. I have been at two others that went under and that is no fun. I like the fact that I am a captain because I earned it not because I am a number. There are and have been F/O's I would not like to see Captain. On the furlough issue if you are going to be a whiner and complainer go get a job somewhere else.
I wanted to be a pilot and here I can fly 100 hours a month of good flying and with a four on three off I spend alot of time with my family compared to alot of other jobs plus I am home every night.
we have it pretty good so don't mess it up

I am not the one who is starting the "problem" of bringing in a union. Management is the one creating problems by their behavior. I have talked to many of the pilots about this, and almost everyone is ****ed at mgmt, but are mostly scared little puppies just waiting for their turn to get the shaft. How would a union election turn out? I don't know.

As for PenAir shutting down if a union were voted in...just a very effective scare tactic. Is the future of PenAir so fragile that a union would cause company failure?

Feelin' pretty good about yourself aren't you. Well, just remember, even if you are Chuck Yeager and are in the Metro, YOUR neck is on the block. Start sending resume's out now. I know I am.

The rumor has always been that Penair would shut the doors if union ratification was attempted. This might have been true 20 years ago, but with all of the outstanding Penair debt on hangers and airplanes it is unlikely that the doors would just close. Despite appearances to the contary, Penair is a 65 million dollar company. You don't just shut down an operation that size because someone threatens your dictatorship.

Management has way too much of an ego to throw in the towel. Certain members of management only have Penair. I don't see too many members of the Penair management team getting jobs running United or Fed-x. (Maybe they can teach United pilots how to join the 21st century and call a phone recording every day to see what flights they have next.)

I have been talking to penairpilot and it appears laws exist protecting employees attempting to unionize. Once a unionization attempt is made public, it will be past the point where Penair can attempt retribution. Penair would lose huge lawsuits if they try any of their usual funny business. I don't really see Danny making an ultra persuasive argument to a judge about how he can fire people for any reason regardless of the legality. (guard pilots, pilots who might become pregnant)

Hopefully all the Penair pilots on here will join the good fight to gain some civility and respect in our workplace.

See, that's what I'm talking about. I like it here too. The last thing I want is to get a job somewhere else. Stop b*tc*i*g and if you want to find a new job do just that. I, for one, will not be doing that. I'll wait the industry out and stay with a company that has been tried and tested for 50 years plus. I'm not a company jumper and I never will be. Being able to be home every night with my family is an invaluable attribute for penair that 99% of other regionals/majors cannot offer. We have it very good so, as you said, lets not mess with it.

This is unfortunately extreme shortsighted logic. The ultimate "if it is good only for me, then it must be good".

Forming a union is not about messing it up. It is about unity as a workforce, so that pilots are not pitted against one another and left discarded on the streets.

Being that it is your first post, I do worry you are not who you say you are, or I worry that you might one day find some karma that unexpectedly finds you at Bean's Cafe or greeting at Wally World.

A union guarantees you two things:

1. It guarantees you negotiation of a contract that may or may not benefit you (It may raise or lower your benefits and/or pay).

2. It guarantees you the instant deduction of union fees from every paycheck.

Also, if they say you go on strike, YOU GO ON STRIKE. Who's going to pay my bills and support my family then? I assure you, it won't be the union. It will be me finding a new job.

not shortsighted at all
this is a stable company that makes adjustments to ensure it stays in business. I like that.

we are not pitted against one another and if you look at who they let go it makes sense to me, especially the first one.

there is probably no perfect job but i still have to say that i like my job and i intend to stay right here and if i need to say something to management i will go to the second floor and say it I do not need to pay someone to talk for me