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Originally Posted by AKfreighter
(Post 512282)
They actually had reasons to let the guy your speaking of go. Also, sounds like our payscales are pretty close, but I'm surprised to hear FE's get 45 an hour. Guess thats the price of unloading 10 tons of freight a day.
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Originally Posted by AKfreighter
(Post 512282)
They actually had reasons to let the guy your speaking of go. Also, sounds like our payscales are pretty close, but I'm surprised to hear FE's get 45 an hour. Guess thats the price of unloading 10 tons of freight a day.
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CandC, I guess they aren't too close. I believe our FOs start at 1100 a month, 11 and hour, and 100 a month as a safety bonus. Considering they probably get paid 110-115 hours a month (on average), their probably closer than at first glance. Course there's a bunch of other factors that affect job satisfaction.
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Updates
Anyone have any updates on the union push? I'm curious to see how it plays out.
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It seems like it has died...Haven't heard any talk about it lately.
I think everyone's distracted by the Saab 2000 plans. |
Nothing like a little carrot to help people forget . . .
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We will keep trying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, it does seem that the union thing has lost steam. I'm sorry to say that, but it is what it is. With the help of ALPA "The coalition for penair unionization" determined that; Based upon the current pilot group,
the ratification of Peninsula Airways is not likely. This was indicated by a mathematical analysis that took place in December. The main issue was once again......the pilots insecurity with union participation. These are some of the highlights of our results. The running theme is that people can’t leave Penair, because this is their only option…Theses statistics are based on interviews with current and former employees as well as information that is public knowledge. 1) 29% of the pilot group has DUI/DWI violations or some sort of major alcohol related moving violations. 2) 41% of the pilot group does not hold an accredited four year bachelor degree. 3) 16% Show some signs of various personality and social disorders, which would preclude onward employment. 4) 36% have some sort of FAA action on their record. Accident, incident or violations. There were a few more stats that were compiled, but they were insignificant. These numbers alone do not preclude Penair from becoming unionized. They just show that some of the people within these groups will not be able to attain employment at the major airline or cargo level, and therefore don’t want to risk this gamble. As always we will continue this fight, we believe that once the economy takes an upswing, the general consensus will change. With a slight change in the pilot group demographic, we do believe our goal of unionization can happen. Down on my knees to serve my fellow pilots forever.................TT |
Originally Posted by penairpilot
(Post 544130)
Yeah, it does seem that the union thing has lost steam. I'm sorry to say that, but it is what it is. With the help of ALPA "The coalition for penair unionization" determined that; Based upon the current pilot group,
the ratification of Peninsula Airways is not likely. This was indicated by a mathematical analysis that took place in December. The main issue was once again......the pilots insecurity with union participation. These are some of the highlights of our results. The running theme is that people can’t leave Penair, because this is their only option…Theses statistics are based on interviews with current and former employees as well as information that is public knowledge. 1) 29% of the pilot group has DUI/DWI violations or some sort of major alcohol related moving violations. 2) 41% of the pilot group does not hold an accredited four year bachelor degree. 3) 16% Show some signs of various personality and social disorders, which would preclude onward employment. 4) 36% have some sort of FAA action on their record. Accident, incident or violations. There were a few more stats that were compiled, but they were insignificant. These numbers alone do not preclude Penair from becoming unionized. They just show that some of the people within these groups will not be able to attain employment at the major airline or cargo level, and therefore don’t want to risk this gamble. As always we will continue this fight, we believe that once the economy takes an upswing, the general consensus will change. With a slight change in the pilot group demographic, we do believe our goal of unionization can happen. Down on my knees to serve my fellow pilots forever.................TT |
Originally Posted by penairpilot
(Post 544130)
....Theses statistics are based on interviews with current and former employees as well as information that is public knowledge...
1) 29% of the pilot group has DUI/DWI violations or some sort of major alcohol related moving violations. 2) 41% of the pilot group does not hold an accredited four year bachelor degree. 3) 16% Show some signs of various personality and social disorders, which would preclude onward employment. 4) 36% have some sort of FAA action on their record. Accident, incident or violations. |
Originally Posted by crooked
(Post 544794)
where did this information come from? I was never interviewed. I don't know anyone that was. And why don't you go ahead and sign with your real intitials so we can see who you are...I have an idea.
We interviewed a representative group, based upon a statistical ratio. That means 25% were interviewed and the results were interpolated. Do you really think people will admit to you or anyone, they interacted with us? At this point I will not identify myself……two reasons. 1)We still need to organize the union push. At this point I can’t risk isolating myself at work. 2) I have a family to feed, you know that if management knew my name I would be gone. Your ignorant to even ask, I hope for your sake you knew that. On my knees to serve my fellow pilots forever.....TT |
Originally Posted by crooked
(Post 544794)
where did this information come from? I was never interviewed. I don't know anyone that was.
The DUI/motor vehicle violation numbers seem accurate as does the accident/violation/letter statistic. I would definitely think that 1 in 4 pilots has some sort of major motor vehicle violation. Probably about 1 in 10 people in Anchorage fit in this category and Penair is definitely above average here. I bet if you look at management pilots, the number is more like 3 in 4. The accident/violation/letter statistic might be slightly high, but it seems pretty close. Remember this counts bush pilots too. Think of how many guys who have been at Penair more than 10 years have dented metal somewhere or have gotten a letter for something boneheaded. For crying out loud, the metro chief pilot has been a major focus of the FAA for the last year. I highly doubt that 59% of Penair's pilot corps possesses a college degree. I would guess that maybe 20% of us graduated college. This is much higher than 0% in major management positions. Who knows on the social disorder statistic? We definitely have some pretty weird people, but who doesn't? The bottom line is that Penair is the end of the road for most people. As needed as a union is, people are unwilling to risk the only thing that they have going. Penair has some horrible downsides, (uncertainty, poor management, zero respect) but it is a decent paycheck for someone without a college degree or some sort of record. That being said, I am still dissatisfied with my job. I am just a little more grateful in the last six months that I still have my job. I would welcome a union with open arms, but there are too many scared people to make this a reality. Let's just hope this SAAB 2000 pipe dream actually works and we are still employed in six months. I have my doubts, but it is kind of like the Obama situation, you just have to hope for the best. |
Does anyone know where they are going to get the 2000's from?
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Funny you should ask about the Saab 2000's.....It seems management has hit a snag; We can't raise the required downpayment. Pretty sad, but thats the word on the second floor. Not really surprised, no bank in Alaska will touch us with a ten foot pole. I'm just worried they may fire some more people as they did in August, thats the standard knee jerk reaction. I know some will disagree, but I think the 2000's were the reason for the firings happended in the first place. Anyways I hope I'm not the one to go this time. If you were planning on the ground school this spring, guess again.
On my knees to service my fellow pilots forever......TT |
Originally Posted by penairpilot
(Post 546909)
Funny you should ask about the Saab 2000's.....It seems management has hit a snag; We can't raise the required downpayment. Pretty sad, but thats the word on the second floor. Not really surprised, no bank in Alaska will touch us with a ten foot pole. I'm just worried they may fire some more people as they did in August, thats the standard knee jerk reaction. I know some will disagree, but I think the 2000's were the reason for the firings happended in the first place. Anyways I hope I'm not the one to go this time. If you were planning on the ground school this spring, guess again.
On my knees to service my fellow pilots forever......TT |
Now that the 2000's r a dead deal, lets get back to the union talk. Colgan just did it, they fly Saab's, we can get ALPA too!
Hey I got an idea for all you too afraid to even mention "Union" Lets get some of the furloughed guys to call ALPA and get the ball rolling. What is the worst that can happen? They get furloughed more? I seem to have noticed they tend to furlough out of seniority. Maybe some of the senior guys, who are just out for themselves with their weekends off and their pass down the Reserve flts, should consider this as a reason to think about this seriously! Rumor is they are looking for pilots to take leaves, so for all of us but Captain K, who can take 3 months off at a time, I'm feeling more furloughs on the HORIZON..... |
Are they officially a dead deal, or that's just the rumor?
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Of course it's just a rumor. Silly kids, you should know that by now. Absolutely nothing has been said either way definitively yet. I know there are several PenAir pilots on here. What is everyone's feelings about bringing the 2000's onboard? I'm really excited about the possibility of getting to fly one one of these days. Have you guys/gals looked into them and their specs.? Heck of a turboprop in my opinion, compared to the 340. Gorgeous plane!
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I've flown the 2000 for the past 9 years....any info I can pass along?
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Originally Posted by Klsytakesit
(Post 547706)
Now that the 2000's r a dead deal, lets get back to the union talk. Colgan just did it, they fly Saab's, we can get ALPA too!
Hey I got an idea for all you too afraid to even mention "Union" Lets get some of the furloughed guys to call ALPA and get the ball rolling. What is the worst that can happen? They get furloughed more? I seem to have noticed they tend to furlough out of seniority. Maybe some of the senior guys, who are just out for themselves with their weekends off and their pass down the Reserve flts, should consider this as a reason to think about this seriously! Rumor is they are looking for pilots to take leaves, so for all of us but Captain K, who can take 3 months off at a time, I'm feeling more furloughs on the HORIZON..... |
Originally Posted by Klsytakesit
(Post 547706)
Now that the 2000's r a dead deal, lets get back to the union talk. Colgan just did it, they fly Saab's, we can get ALPA too!
Hey I got an idea for all you too afraid to even mention "Union" Lets get some of the furloughed guys to call ALPA and get the ball rolling. What is the worst that can happen? They get furloughed more? I seem to have noticed they tend to furlough out of seniority. Maybe some of the senior guys, who are just out for themselves with their weekends off and their pass down the Reserve flts, should consider this as a reason to think about this seriously! Rumor is they are looking for pilots to take leaves, so for all of us but Captain K, who can take 3 months off at a time, I'm feeling more furloughs on the HORIZON..... The Saab 2000's. No, PenAir is having problems securing the financing for the planes. People seem to think that Saab is going to help us do everything, such as certification and parts support. Saab is there to make money, thats what a company does. Nothing is free!!! Why did they support the 340 so well? Because the planes were five years old, they were pretty much brand new. Now that some are almost 15 years old, I think the tone will change. We should invest in aircraft built in the last decade. Another issue with the 2000 is the ice speeds. Now with most aircraft that are 121, you add a buffer to your ref speed if you have any ice on the aircraft at all. With the metro it's 19 knots, even if you have trace ice. Do we every add this......no. The issue is that this increases your landing distance. When landing in Dutch this becomes a problem. At max 0 fuel weight and fuel for CDB with reserves the factored landing distance in dutch for the 2000 is 4300' when you use ice approach speeds. Demonstrated landing distance is the actual distance it takes to stop an aircraft, 2580' in this case. Factored landing distance is demonstrated + 40%. 121 requires us to use factored for performance. This is one fact that management has kept from us. Why do you think Harding is in town, Honty lates cant figure this one out for himself. It will be fun to watch this play out during the proving runs. The 2000 is not that great really, meairlinepilot. We know your douchebag management, so stop trying to spread your propaganda BS. Most of us think that PenAir sucks, so stop trying to increase moral. On my knees to service my fellow pilots forever.......TT |
Originally Posted by penairpilot
(Post 548638)
I wish......management just fired them, no furloughs. Management knows how this works, after the firings they put an at will employment form in everyones box they had to sign. This is the reason we need a union. But as stated, people don't have the guts to do anything.
The Saab 2000's. No, PenAir is having problems securing the financing for the planes. People seem to think that Saab is going to help us do everything, such as certification and parts support. Saab is there to make money, thats what a company does. Nothing is free!!! Why did they support the 340 so well? Because the planes were five years old, they were pretty much brand new. Now that some are almost 15 years old, I think the tone will change. We should invest in aircraft built in the last decade. Another issue with the 2000 is the ice speeds. Now with most aircraft that are 121, you add a buffer to your ref speed if you have any ice on the aircraft at all. With the metro it's 19 knots, even if you have trace ice. Do we every add this......no. The issue is that this increases your landing distance. When landing in Dutch this becomes a problem. At max 0 fuel weight and fuel for CDB with reserves the factored landing distance in dutch for the 2000 is 4300' when you use ice approach speeds. Demonstrated landing distance is the actual distance it takes to stop an aircraft, 2580' in this case. Factored landing distance is demonstrated + 40%. 121 requires us to use factored for performance. This is one fact that management has kept from us. Why do you think Harding is in town, Honty lates cant figure this one out for himself. It will be fun to watch this play out during the proving runs. The 2000 is not that great really, meairlinepilot. We know your douchebag management, so stop trying to spread your propaganda BS. Most of us think that PenAir sucks, so stop trying to increase moral. On my knees to service my fellow pilots forever.......TT |
"The Saab 2000's. No, PenAir is having problems securing the financing for the planes. People seem to think that Saab is going to help us do everything, such as certification and parts support. Saab is there to make money, thats what a company does."
I don't think Saab was selling these airplanes to us. That was under an old deal where they were supposed to pay for certification. I'm pretty sure they're dealing with Ginn Racing directly. |
Originally Posted by meairlinepilot
(Post 548709)
...especially with the few PenAir bashers from Era on here. I haven't heard from them recently since our news of the possibility of the 2000's...
Penair bashers are Penair pilots who are disgruntled and unhappy with their jobs. We don't like where we work or for whom we work. If you are not management then you must have a Penair koolaid i.v. going. You seem completely blind about the company for which you work. Well, maybe you are just worried that the second floor is watching and you don't want to be a member of the third round of lay-offs. Oh yeah, the third round is only a short time away. By the way, are we really in such a desperate situation that Penair is asking us to take unpaid leave? Does that really save any money? Ten pilots taking a week off might save ten grand. How bout we try cancelling a few trips when the weather is questionable? One missed in SNP with the Saab probably costs five grand. What's the phrase, dropping dollars to pick up pennies? Or maybe we could get rid of ramp middle management? Or maybe Al? Or maybe one of the countless Penair employees that does nothing all day? |
Originally Posted by ks4life
(Post 548743)
Do you really think the Penair bashers are Era pilots? Surely, you can't be that dense. You don't think that Era really gives a ****** about us. I don't care about them so why would they worry about us. They have jobs, mortgages, and families. I don't think any of them are lame enough to waste their day on a forum thread for an airline that does not employ them. Are you wasting your time on Era threads? Come on, pull your head out!
Penair bashers are Penair pilots who are disgruntled and unhappy with their jobs. We don't like where we work or for whom we work. You misunderstood me. I didn't say anything about the PenAir bashers from Era being the people posting on this thread. I've read a couple of posts in a few other threads that were derrogatory about PenAir. Again, nothing to do with the conversations in the posts on this thread. I doubt that anyone from Era is on this thread really :cool: |
Look, this is all a goat show. I am not bashing PenAir. I'm just stating the truth.....Facts. First of all Era is doing fine, they did not fire a bunch of people out of order. If they were talking smack about that, it was only the truth.
I'm feel sorry that you think you fly for a legit company. As always you don't know the way the world works. Yes the 2000's will be coming from some racing company. It's the support that will cost. Look at the metros, the people that have our old ones used them for parts. Its only a matter of time before the Saabs end up the same way. Do you really want to work at PenAir forever? If so you should seriously consider the fact that we are investing in a product that was both unsuccessful in production numbers(Saab only built 50 2000's) and now aged. On my knees to service my fellow pilots forever........Ty |
Originally Posted by meairlinepilot
(Post 548169)
Of course it's just a rumor. Silly kids, you should know that by now. Absolutely nothing has been said either way definitively yet. I know there are several PenAir pilots on here. What is everyone's feelings about bringing the 2000's onboard? I'm really excited about the possibility of getting to fly one one of these days. Have you guys/gals looked into them and their specs.? Heck of a turboprop in my opinion, compared to the 340. Gorgeous plane!
This is why we will never have a union. To easily distracted by shiny things to see the shat rising around us. Forget the 2000. Forget the overpayed "management". Forget the stupid things we do that lose money. Just think about this: Just about everyone who was fired, was informed that there would be a new ground school they could re-apply for. (awesome) This ground school was being held because they needed a few good Caravan FO's. The best thing about this job is that you get payed about 500 bucks a week and are basically a glorified ramper. So you won't have much food, but will be stacking freight 14hours a day! Just think of it as a weight loss program! As an experienced bush driver and metro captain, this job should be cake! Might as well shat in their wheaties and say you did them a favor by adding raisins. This is the type of management you are dealing with here. Please God let the airline industry improve so that those of us with real brains and ambition (and no DUI or criminal record) can leave for somewhere else. |
Originally Posted by ks4life
(Post 548743)
Do you really think the Penair bashers are Era pilots? Surely, you can't be that dense. You don't think that Era really gives a ****** about us. I don't care about them so why would they worry about us. They have jobs, mortgages, and families. I don't think any of them are lame enough to waste their day on a forum thread for an airline that does not employ them. Are you wasting your time on Era threads? Come on, pull your head out!
Penair bashers are Penair pilots who are disgruntled and unhappy with their jobs. We don't like where we work or for whom we work. If you are not management then you must have a Penair koolaid i.v. going. You seem completely blind about the company for which you work. Well, maybe you are just worried that the second floor is watching and you don't want to be a member of the third round of lay-offs. Oh yeah, the third round is only a short time away. By the way, are we really in such a desperate situation that Penair is asking us to take unpaid leave? Does that really save any money? Ten pilots taking a week off might save ten grand. How bout we try cancelling a few trips when the weather is questionable? One missed in SNP with the Saab probably costs five grand. What's the phrase, dropping dollars to pick up pennies? Or maybe we could get rid of ramp middle management? Or maybe Al? Or maybe one of the countless Penair employees that does nothing all day? |
Originally Posted by penairpilot
(Post 548874)
Look, this is all a goat show. I am not bashing PenAir. I'm just stating the truth.....Facts.
I'm feel sorry that you think you fly for a legit company. As always you don't know the way the world works. On my knees to service my fellow pilots forever........Ty And I'm sorry too that you can't just make the most of difficult times and you'd rather spend your time on here b*tching about PenAir. I don't know about you, but I'm thankful I fly for PenAir right about now. Not to mention I am thankful I have a flying job whatsoever. Tens of thousands don't and would do anything to be in our shoes. Have a nice day of flying :) |
I fly for the "other carrier" across the way. I know a few of your pilots and they are great people. I also know one that got let go in that last round of "furloughs". I would not wish that on any person. I hope no one else gets the same treatment, especially in this job market as I am sure like us most of you have families and mortgages.
I send you my best wishes for a better future in these hard times. We went through a rough patch a couple years ago and seem to have come out OK. Some at Penair cheered hoping for our demise. I cannot and will not do that to you. We are all in this industry together. Good Luck to you all. |
Originally Posted by meairlinepilot
(Post 549764)
And I'm sorry too that you can't just make the most of difficult times and you'd rather spend your time on here b*tching about PenAir. I don't know about you, but I'm thankful I fly for PenAir right about now. Not to mention I am thankful I have a flying job whatsoever. Tens of thousands don't and would do anything to be in our shoes. Have a nice day of flying :)
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Originally Posted by crooked
(Post 549816)
Well said. We all still have jobs, and while I have it, I'm gonna enjoy it.
You are right though, in this economy, we are all desperate, so over the barrel we stay. But once things pick up, I can bet you will see a mass exodus. Most people I trust enough to mention these things to, have had enough of the B.S. |
Originally Posted by akpilot7
(Post 549854)
So, your cool with what happened in the past 6 months? Everything is fine as long as YOU keep your job? A man like yourself with 1000 pic would be nuts to not start looking around as soon as possible. If nothing else just to have a little respect thrown your way. Go ahead, take a complaint, any complaint, up to the second floor. I dare you. See how long you have a job. This is the kind of thing that has me looking for another job. I just cant stand here over a barrel any longer than I have to. Penair looks for, retains, and promotes weak-willed people on purpose (so they can exploit them).
You are right though, in this economy, we are all desperate, so over the barrel we stay. But once things pick up, I can bet you will see a mass exodus. Most people I trust enough to mention these things to, have had enough of the B.S. |
Originally Posted by crooked
(Post 549961)
I definately do not agree with the way they fired those guys out of seniority...or that they were fired at all. If I had a serious enough of a problem, I would have no problem talking about it with who matters. I'm just saying on a day to day basis, I enjoy what I do. I know things are shakey right now, but where are they not? I'm sure there are worse company's to work for...For the most part the last few years things have been pretty good for us. anyways...
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A s*it monsoon is a brewin!!!
Well as most of us know here at PenAir, management has requested some of us to take leave. The 2000 is going to cause some more problems........Why don't we just give it up? Alaska Airlines jumped ship on the money they were going to loan us for new toys. How come? It's hard to rationalize giving us money when they have people on the street, understandably. Now this leave thing, which seems to have little or no interest from the pilot group. This is not good.......the D man will get his toy, no matter how many people and familys he screws over. He will rationalize this toy because "it will be better in the long run". We will FIRE some more people this spring, watch......I just hope it's not me this time around. I should have ditched this place when they fired my friends but alas, I have no backbone like the rest of us.
On my knees servicing my fellow pilots till the end of time.......TT |
Is there training scheduled for the 2000?
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Originally Posted by ZAT4US
(Post 554507)
Is there training scheduled for the 2000?
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Originally Posted by ZAT4US
(Post 554507)
Is there training scheduled for the 2000?
Are you serious or were you just kicked in the head by a horse? |
So it sounds like the alchoic children (aka management) are at it again. Shorty they will make some cutbacks. FACT, don't ask how i know, but i have inside info. It sounds like they will be doing some non requested vacations for some people......unpaid of course. As said, the underlying cause will be the 2000's. Now the question is; will you stand behind your fellow friends and co workers, or will we all scab out again? We arn't talking a union yet, but will you defend them in other ways. Such ideas as, mx write up or calling in sick? Im just trying to get an idea.
servicing all of my fellow pilo needs.........tt |
I felt it a valid question. Thank you for your candid response. I'm glad you are off your knees.
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Originally Posted by penairpilot
(Post 555867)
So it sounds like the alchoic children (aka management) are at it again. Shorty they will make some cutbacks. FACT, don't ask how i know, but i have inside info. It sounds like they will be doing some non requested vacations for some people......unpaid of course. As said, the underlying cause will be the 2000's. Now the question is; will you stand behind your fellow friends and co workers, or will we all scab out again? We arn't talking a union yet, but will you defend them in other ways. Such ideas as, mx write up or calling in sick? Im just trying to get an idea.
servicing all of my fellow pilo needs.........tt |
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