Probably a poor speller, or maybe the writer of that post, "tt". Sure you are.

Contacted ALPA. They said there was no contacts, interviews, etc. as described by TT.

That's Hilarious.

Good. Maybe he gave up and he'll finally get off his knees now.

I'm sorry I did not take your other post seriously....What I said was disrespectful and unprofessional. I apologise.

First of all, I don't think you did......Why would you? Second of all, do you really think they would have given you any information? No. I'm sure that if they would have spoken to you, (which they did not) they would have spoken to DS at some point and four or five of us would not have a job right now. Just humor me, who did you contact at ALPA?

The union is still in order, I assure everyone. We just need to wait for better timing.


If I was not TT, why is he not here to represent himself? Answer that.

On my knees servicing my fellow pilots till the end of time........TT

I contacted an ALPA rep from a major carrier. Why you ask? Because it is not something to be taken lightly and fact checking is rather easy. I asked about 2000 training because if there is none scheduled then there won't be one on the ramp. I thank you for your apology.

I know this is probably contrary to custom, but here's $20 to get OFF your knees

First of all at this point I would like to stress that our group “The united pilot coalition of Peninsula Airways” UPCPA has no official association with ALPA at this point in time. I can assure you that we have been in contact with them and the “ball is rolling”. Our organization needs to stress this point in order to protect ourselves from management. I am sure that your friend the ALPA representative at “a major airline” is well informed and in the loop. Many layers of ALPA representation exist within each pilot group, but unless he is the MEC chair, your friend’s knowledge of our world is limited.
One must realize that the process of any pilot group seeking union ratification is both unique and complex. Many times I have stated that the time is not right for a union. In many cases this is an incorrect statement. The firings out of seniority last August are a prime example. The main reason that we wait is for contract execution.
The problems with inciting a union within the pilot group have been stated previously in this forum, so I’m not going to bring them up now. We have been actively negotiating with Alaska for some sort of flow up / flow down provision. This has been difficult because it is an entirely separate company all together. But overtime we do believe that we have made progress;
1) The current proposal is that, “the major airline” would be required to hire the first five pilots per month from the PenAir pilot group prior to any street hires. Up to 20% of the total PenAir seniority list per year.
2) Conversely, pilots furloughed from their pilot group would displace PenAir pilots in our pilot group at the same rate. Five per month and 20% of our seniority list per year.

One reason this was not discussed earlier is that we needed to organize training expenses and payment for the flow up / flow down process, but a tentative understanding has been reached. As I stated organizing the layout of the union has been quite a complex process. Mostly because of our small size and the flow process. Currently our plan is not to have our own MEC chair, but to have their MEC chair represent us. Having our own MEC for such a small pilot group would be relatively powerless, but more importantly this will make the flow process between the two totally separate companies legal.

In the near future everyone within the pilot group will be hearing from us as soon as we have a completed draft contract. Please give us time and since everything here on APC is anonymous we do ask for the input of all PenAir pilots. Thank you

I would take a bullet for every one of us……………TT

I find it even harder to believe that you're talking to Alaska about a flow-through than I do you talking to ALPA. Why would Alaska do that? As you pointed out earlier, most of our pilots couldn't qualify for an interview, much less make it through the pscyh. part, and how many of their pilots would want to flow down to us, when (if an agreement was in place) they could be displaced to Horizon? I'm not against you, just suspicious.

Sorry that the proposed flow has not been mentioned up until this point, but as I said we need to validate the contract at the right time. We would like to wait until their entire pilot group is back on the property. This will simplify things greatly in order to separate the two groups from the beginning. The general consensus is to see people flow from our side to theirs first. This is the reason that we would like to correlate us signing a contract and them recalling all furloughed pilots.
A flow up is a guaranteed job with a solid employee number. Horizon does not have this luxury. They must interview with the company and be hired, just as any street hire. They approached us initially; evidently they have been more then impressed with the quality of the last five or so pilots hired from the Penair pilot group. Again, their main incentive was the flow back. It makes it more likely that they be able to recall a pilot that is based in Anchorage and never is jobless. Stats have shown that a large percentage of furloughed pilots obtain employment else ware and never return to their original company. This is very expensive because they may train for the same initial position multiple times in as little as six months.
I will answer your question regarding the selection of PenAir employees eligible for flow up tomorrow. As for the current pilot group, we estimate that 60 to 70 percent would be entitled to flow, based on those stats stated earlier.

To serve my pilots………….is my soul reserving a place in history…………..TT

Yeah, "TT", I'm aware Horizon doesn't have a flow through agreement. I meant that I think AS pilots would rather have one with them than us. The reason that ANC is so junior at all carriers is because pilots bid out of here as soon as they can. Most people don't want to live here. AS is no different. But, it would be helpful for those guys who want to live here, or already moved here and don't want to move back to the lower 48 for a short time, which might be most everybody. More power to you, keep it up. At the very least, this is highly entertaining.

So in short, I just put my resume into Pen Air, i will not be expecting a call back or response? Because they are NOT hiring?

FOXNews.com - Romanian Plane Carrying 51 Makes Emergency Landing; All Escape - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

This would be a lot of fun in DUT. Wouldn't want to have this problem down the chain if CDB c**pped out.

By the way, how does a Romanian airline afford Saab 2000s and we can't???

Pretty bad that they have better management in Romania than at Penair...

Look out for HoTH!!!



Feb. 28: Airport workers stand around a Romanian Carpatair Saab 2000 plane following an emergency landing after developing trouble with landing gear.
TIMISOARA, Romania — A Romanian plane carrying 51 people made a safe emergency landing in western Romania on Saturday and all the occupants escaped injury, officials said.

The Carpatair flight's front landing gear became stuck and the aircraft circled Timisoara International Airport for almost two hours, using up its fuel to avoid a potential fire before it landed on a bed of foam laid out by firefighters, officials said.

The Saab 2000 aircraft was carrying 47 passengers and four crew members on its flight from the Moldovan capital, Chisinau, to Timisoara, airport spokeswoman Carmen Stoica said.

The Emergency Inspectorate said at least 10 ambulances and three fire engines were waiting for the stricken plane.

Timisoara ambulance chief Iancu Leonida said there were no injuries, but people were very frightened.

"There are no injured people, although some might have minor scratches, but they are very scared and traumatized," he said. "They are being given medical care."

The airport said the plane landed using only the main landing gear, on a 200-yard long bed of foam.

Carpatair vice president Dan Andrei said that "when it landed, the plane came down on the side wheels; it braked sharply and at a low speed it came on its front belly, while the front landing gear remained stuck."

The Romanian Transportation Ministry has sent a team to Timisoara to investigate the incident.

If you are still counting on the big Saab showing up anytime soon checkout this link.

Withdrawn Document Request 090000648085c279&disposition=attachment&contentTyp e=...

Bye bye Saab 2000. I truly enjoy the summary statement that the FAA included, that indicates by Pen Airs own omission current operation into Dutch Harbor maybe unsafe.

I have enjoyed all the fairy tales being told by both sides on this thread, it is pure entertainment. Like there is a Saab 2000 on the ramp or we have "smart pilots" as in upper level degrees and the union is come, the union is coming, please. We all know that when it comes down to doing anything our pilot group is show and no go. One on one easily 90% of the guys I fly with say they would welcome some form of representation and protection that a union would provide, but none of them are will to take any steps towards making it happen.

Management is truly afraid of change and will cut any of our throats in order to keep the status quo. They would prefer to stick with a lame duck, such as our Metro "Chief Pilot," or the other numerous leaches that our management and training department are full of.

As for TT being on his knees, there is no doubt that he is used to being there, but we all know he is not writing those post. He doesn't have the gumption to write what you did.

Those of you that are still interested in working here after what you have read I hope you get your chance, you desire Pen Air and what they may do to you. Everyone comes here thinking they will beat the odds and make it through cleanly, but the odds are you won't. Only about 20% of the FOs here will ever be given the opportunity to become a captain and out of those over 50% will fail there first type ride and/or OE. So good luck boys and girls, get in line and wish upon a star and you might be one of the lucky few that makes it through.

I saw the link to the FAA doc did not come up, just google Pen Air Saab 2000. It is the FAA document # FAA-2009-0050-000

Interesting read.

the FAA is NOT amused....
 

Exemption No.

Firefox's html version of the document if you please.

Interesting read indeed.

request denied.

Someone at the FAA knows how to write. That was well said.

Unionize Penair Now!
 

Re; The Saab 2000's not comming.....

[quote=meairlinepilot;548169]Of course it's just a rumor. Silly kids, you should know that by now. Absolutely nothing has been said either way definitively yet. quote]

I hate to say it, but this seems pretty definitive to me.........Maybe they will move on to the Q400, which is what they should have done in the first place. It has even better performance then the 2000, and it was built in the last decade.

I appreciate your criticism, but the union is real…………….It should be greeted with open arms, but why not? In my opinion, two reasons; Most of the senior pilots are scared to challenge management. They are the ones that would see the greatest increase with regards to quality of life. The second reason is just that people don’t care. As I said before; if you were to lock a child in a closet all their life, they would be content with that existence, because it’s all they know. This pilot group is that way; most people have not worked with a unionized pilot group and are ignorant of the benefits.
As I said before, we are relatively well paid. It is an entirely a quality of life issue. Now union dues cost money, about 1.5% of your income. But with that, there are many benefits.
1) A professional standards committee. “The metro chief pilot” is an idiot, most of us know that. With a pro standards committee, WE could demote him out of that position and replace him with someone who is competent.
a) Do you think it is fair to promote out of seniority order? What is the point of seniority? It is ridicules how many people do not pass OE or their type rides. We do fly in some very inhospitable environments, but that does mean we are super pilots? No. In fact, the decision maker for the Metro (senior check airman) did not even complete Saab training during the mid 90’s. How is this acceptable? You have issues in the Saab, but let’s go ahead and make you a Metro check airman. Absolutely ridicules!
b) A Saab check airmen teaches people to maintain 250 until the final approach fix. How is this standard?
2) Furlough protections. How would you like to be FIRED and on the street, when someone junior to you keeps their job. Don’t you think it’s fair, that when the company is in better economic shape, we get our jobs back?
3) How would you like a flow agreement with Alaska? This is something that is being proposed. (Their request by the way) If you were to bypass the chance to flow up, you could never be displaced by an Alaska flow down.
4) Remember when the FO’s were given vacation, but not the captains? We had to fight and argue our case. Why should management actions like this be tolerated?
5) A scheduling committee. Traffic gives us all the shaft. Why do we call at 6pm to check our schedules? Because most of us don’t know better. I don’t know if any of you know this, but at all other airlines, the pilots know their scheduled flights two weeks in advance. Why do we allow traffic to be lazy and irresponsible, and not accountable for their actions?
a) Have you ever been called for a flight at 4am, even though your four deep on reserve? I have multiple times. Why? Because the other reserves don’t pick up their phone. What is the point of seniority? At real airlines these people would be held responsible.
6) Do you think it’s fair to be paid differently then someone with the same position and seniority? Just because you bring DS coffee and tell him how great he is, you don’t deserve anymore pay then your fellow pilots. Some of us have self respect. Pay should be dictated by a table WE agree on, that is based entirely on years of service and position.

Most of these issues are easy to fix in reality. Why don't we make managemnet do it. If you say that 90% of our pilot group would welcome representation(which I think is accurate), where are they? Many of the people on this fourm resist the movement. Why? Becasue they listen to what some of the senior guys say, and they drink the kool aid. www.Airlinepilotcentral.com is a perfect meeting ground to discuss ratification. This is a totally anonymous forum. I’m sure that if he could, DS would have found out who I am and I would already be gone. This place is safe, so please tell everyone to come here and discuss their thoughts and concerns. We need to know what people want. We need to create an action plan before we have a live meeting, but I assure you it will come. As soon as we do have a live meeting, anyone involved would be instantly protected by law.


Servicing my fellow pilots on my knees, forever………………………TT

Email
 

Also, If you don't feel comfortable here; Sign up for a free email account, and send us you thoughts at [email protected]

Look like Frontier Alaska is taking a page from the Penair play-book and eliminating those who don't take a good swig from the company coffee mug every day, I was getting a stern talking to today because, among other things, it appears that I didn't add oil often enough to make it seem like I was checking it (***?), so I just resigned without hearing any more, it's ok though, I had my suspicions after the Era acquisition and got 2 offers together, looks like I'll be captaining a 207 for Yute in a few weeks.

What is the deal over at Hageland/Frontier/ERA? I heard that alot of guys over there are unhappy. And what with airplanes crashing and all. I heard pilots were taking pay cuts. Doesn't seem like a very happy place right now either.

Frontier's certificates will be sold, the former Frontier is being entirely erased, and all 2F planes will end up on H9s or Eras certs... the very junior pilot group at 2F will be lower on seniority to the Era group, so guys with 18000 hours will be FOs to 3000 hour pilots on the same equipment at a company which they helped purchase through their hard work. The 1900Cs will end up in the Bush, eventually, and most 2F pilots will have to commute to work, the whole pilot group is up in arms and 75% is waiting for the first good offer to move on and get the heck out of 2F, the place went from being a good airline to work for just before the Hageland merger to something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy at this point (most of this in the last 2 months alone). Time to the left seat of the 1900 has gone from 3-4 years to 8+.

The fuel issue
 

Well I guess the world knows I took off from the island without refueling, and had to return. Well this was a simple mistake; any one of us would have made it. The main thing was that I was distracted because the weather was up and down, I just wanted to get airborne before it came back down. The fact that we had no takeoff alternate and we would need to return to SNP in the event of an emergency, did not occur to me at the time. They were having issues with the fuel pump there, so I did a quick mental calculation and determined that I had enough fuel to make it to ANC. My mistake was I used Metro numbers instead of Saab numbers, I just plain forgot which plane I was in. If I would have been in a Metro, everything would have been fabulous. I won’t make that mistake again!!!! I can say that if we had enacted a union, they would have a lawyer to help me fight this thing as the fed are violating me.

I have a bone to pick; people need to stop saying things behind my back. I will talk to everyone face to face, but referring to me as a “Corn Goblin” is disrespectful. People say I eat corn the long way, and this is how the corn goblin thing came along……I guess.……………………..I can’t deny this fact, but my personal life if MY business. Just please stop calling me things:(


On my knees to service my fellow pilots till the end of time……..TT

I heard an interesting thing the other day, but it was on the second floor………………….frontier may try to acquire Penair. From what I hear, this would be more of an association really. I guess they want the name and operating certificate rather than anything else. From what I heard, they want the name because of the association with excellent customer service and on time performance. They want the certificate, because of our safety record. They are looking at the way we operate and determined that “our safety system” is stellar and basically full proof. I guess they looked at our safety and accident record for the last 10 years and were really impressed. I would really be open to this, because their pilot group is more open to a union. I don’t think they have the spineless, scab factor associated with our pilot group.


On my knees to service my fellow pilots till the end of time……………………………TT

excellent customer service and on time performance ?

Your talking about PenAir right? :p

and come on Tamie, bringing up the corn and your personal life will get this thread shut down real quick.

BTW: I had to wait 10 minutes before writing this because I was laughing too hard :D

This is really getting entertaining. You have quite the imagination.

Sorry to hear your had to quit and that they are going that way.

"TT" you are crazy, but the stuff about the other TT is hilarious. Please don't insult our intelligence in pretending to (still) work here, though.

I guess when you control a majority of the jobs you can start treating people like crap. Has anyone heard anything about potential layoffs within the pilot group?

Does this mean you are no longer a caped crusader and your secret identity has been exposed?

Don't say it unless you mean it!:p

Hey PenairPilot and your buddies. I have watched your dog and pony show here for a few months and have not responded due to the fact your drivel and rudeness has been not worthy of my time...until now. You can pretend to care about your fellow pilots all you want but it appears you are just a sad excuse for a person and pilot. Quit posing as "TT", everybody knows your not that person and whatever personal agenda you have against that person does not belong here. Like my title says, you know me. Third floor corner office, not Lloyd. I am calling you out, I think you are a coward who doesn't have the brains or guts to identify yourself due to the fact you are trashing a lot of your co-workers. How can you expect support if you are obviously committed to nobody but yourself? You spread rumor and innuendo as if what you say are facts. Sitting and whinning with your buddies does not a scientific survey make. So here is the challenge for you. Grow up and meet me at a place and time of your choosing and we will have a face to face conversation and trust me, it will stay away from the second floor. By the way, I have a college degree, I have worked for Aviation companies that are union, have you? I doubt it. Have some honor, meet my challenge, I don't think you will. PS, learn to spell...

So is Penair hiring? :)

Ok first off……….TT, is it someone’s initials? Humm……Could it be two peoples initials (Like a law firm)? No it’s not, but to my surprise no one here has figured it out yet. It’s deeper than it seems; I never said I was anyone. I guess with the corn goblin thing and all, people just assumed.

Second of all, we are appalled by the fact that the only way to incite discussion on this thread is through personal attacks. The last few postings I made were more of an experiment than anything else, just to see if people were listening……every posting I have made other then the last few, have been correct and factual. To be honest even the last few postings were relevant, they were just extremely sarcastic.

I appreciate the fact that you want to meet me and discuss the cause, but here is the issue; As far as I can tell you are not in the pilot group. Why would I risk exposing us to a situation that could be compromising? The fact is you aren’t part of the pilot group, so you can’t do anything productive for us. Until we can make this thing work, I will not expose myself to DS’s axe. I have a family to feed.

The stats I presented are factual and from a representative group. I explained the way that we determined this before, so I’m not going over this again. I assure you that it was not a bunch of friends at F street BSing. The people that were polled had been asked to keep that to themselves. I’m glad you have a degree, and yes I have worked for two companies that have had pilot unions. They are effective and productive when used correctly. We just won’t see one because of the “lifers”. Like I said, these people are scared, I just hope one day these people can stand up for what is right. We need some more line pilots to represent the cause. If my fellow pilots would represent the cause with as much enthusiasm as they use to defend the real TT, we would have a powerful and united pilot group. My response to the spelling remark is; your right and I don’t care.



On my knees to service my fellow pilots till the end of time..........TT

The other day I over heard that there is a new hire class in April but they are not going to hire back any of the pilots they let go. I wonder if this is going to be a recurring plan. Dump the high time FOs and junior captains and replace them with new hires in order to save on payroll. Maybe the guy on the third floor can give us some insight.

For some reason, our hunch is that you are the 135 CP. If so understand this; within the pilot management group, you demand and deserve respect. In our collective opinion, you are singled out as both professional and logical. If only this company would utilize more talent like yourself. As I said, any official interaction with yourself would be pointless and counterproductive at this point.

Yes, there is talk of a ground school. The recent Sabb 2000 issues may put this class on hold. Yes, Penair has always trimmed at the top to some extent. The people they let go of are the thorns in their sides. If we were too release people based on performance, DS would need to fire himself over this Sabb 2000 circus.

Oh yes 3rd floor guy, do tell. It is this kind of behavior that has the pilot group split between the lifer's who are scared, and the ambitious pilots who are ****ed off. Regardless, NO-ONE is going to bring any complaints to anyone! We all know that at PenAir the squeeky wheel get the axe!

I personally would only bring a complaint after I had a spot in a ground school for some other company. But by then, I wouldn't care. The only real win for the pilot's will be when the economy picks up, and pilot's are in demand. PenAir will then have a VERY hard time finding fresh bodies to bleed out, because the word is out on the behavior of the mgmt.

And hey, a little good ribbing never hurt anyone. TT probably isn't the TT you are thinking of, so I wouldn't take anything personal. Now, when my friends are fired for no reason, my vacation is cancelled at the last minute, my "schedule" changes day to day so that I miss my kids birthday party....that kind of thing I take personal.

First of all; please don’t threaten anyone……

Second of all; 50% of the pilots here have failed IOE or checkrides. Maybe your included;) To be honest this says quite a bit about our training program.

Third; How could I possibly enact a union if I don’t work here?????? I am here awaiting my position with Alaska. As soon as they start hiring again, I’m already in the pool. That’s quite far in the future, so I want to help leave a legacy that will improve the quality of life for the future and current pilots here.

I will never meet you. Let me say this again…..I don’t believe that you are part of the line pilot group(Your management), so meeting you is both compromising and unproductive. “Maybe there was a reason those people were fired” Do you think an effort to ratify a contract would constitute a reason to be terminated? Of course it would, come on man. DS would fire myself and anyone else involved with this if he knew my identity. He obviously doesn’t or else I would be gone. Why do you want to meet me anyway? What is it going to do for you?

Cosmo is right; with the decision making process that management uses, I fear for our jobs. Remember the four incidents that we had last year at this time(All within a month or so). 1) Goose meets truck 2) Cherokee meets hill 3) Metro smashes pavement 4) The rudder incident. Well guess what, it takes a year to investigate and determine a cause for these incidents. The year is up……….Now the feds will be looking at why these occurred in such a short span. Simple answer, inadequate management practices and policies.


With a union, we could establish a procedures and policies committee. We could force changes to the GOM and CFMs which reflect our beliefs and opinions, not just what the super management pilots think. Management needs a third party babysitter, plain and simple.
After the public response the Feds gave us over the Saab 2000 waiver request, I would not be surprised if they really start to look at our operation. I don’t want us to get shutdown like LAB.