Wheels up QOL and money
 

Hello everyone I’m new to this site so forgive me in advance for any repeat questions.
1. The upgrade time to captain I’m hearing two different stories. Is it automatically after one year or is it based on merit?
2. When your bases say west coast, willl your tour stArt at your base or fly to meet the plane?
3. The per diem card , is it loaded and yours to keep? What happens if you barely use it?
4. How much PIC does a Sic actually log?
5. Overall what are your thoughts on the company? Is it a good place to work at? I know that all companies will have their ups and downs.

Thanks

1. “Merit”. Is a loose term. Don’t do anything stupid and as long as you have the mins. Should be around the 1 year mark. Nothing is automatic here.
2. Both.
3. My per diem card is loaded multiple times a day.... :confused: You get per diem for a day on duty.
4. No way I’m getting into a logging time discussion. There are pages on that.
5. It’s got it’s issues, but it’s better than your average 135. But it’s still a 135....

Upgrade Eval is at 1 yr for people hired as SIC. do what you are supposed to and there won't be any problems.
You will start on an airplane in the US (99% of the time). That's about as much as anyone knows until we get our orders.
There is no card for perdiem. We get a company card to use for hotels, travel, and whatever other business expenses we run into. You turn in per diem numbers with your expense reports and get paid what you are owed.
Logging of time by SICs is changing. For me if I'm not listed as PIC on the daily paperwork, I'm logging SIC.
Top of the line as far as 135s go.

How’s qol compared to a regional? Looking to stop commuting.

I was at a regional for many years and I can tell you life is much better for me here at Gama. If you are senior at a regional and getting 15 plus days off, your life may be better there. If your long term goal is airlines then it might be better for you to stay put. We only get 12-13 days off a month so you should factor that. As far as commuting goes, your blood pressure won’t go up here because company pays for a positive space ticket every time. I’m east coast based and on average my first day starts around 9 or 10 am and last day get back just after dinner time. Other guys on here, especially west coast guys, will say they start earlier and definitely get back very late every time.
Lots of things to factor but for me I wish I made the jump earlier.

So, your allowed up to 59 per day that turn in receipts for? I was told hats we get a card that is loaded for our per diem.

You were told wrong. $59 day per diem domestic $65 international plus $5 a day for tips. Per diem is paid separately from you salary. You are issued a company credit card which is used by logistics to book hotels and airline tickets. You also use it to pay for rental car gas etc.

To say it another way, you request 59 a day (65 international) on your expense report for the tour. That's per day you are on the road, most likely 8 days. Standby at home, doesn't pay per diem. But that really doesn't happen all that much. No receipts required, because it's not based on what you use, it's a flat rate.

So if I understand correctly you don’t have to submit pictures of all the receipts? Just at the end of your 8 day shift you tell them you worked 8 days and they give you $472 on your check if it’s all domestic?
That would be amazing instead of submitting every receipt.

It is not put on your PAY check. The per diem is with your expense report on a separate check... You must submit your shift expenses (receipts), mainly Hotels, Uber, Airline and any other authorized expense in order to receive your per diem. This check takes somewhere between 1-3 weeks to appear in your bank account.

Thanks for the replies.
How long, if you have the qualifications, are people having to wait to upgrade? Some have said one year. Is that to the jet or king air?
Are folks finding they’re not getting upgrades to the jet? Years on the king air? I know the king air is the bread and butter.
Thanks.

If you meet the qualifications required, you are evaluated at a year. If you pass, you go to the PIC pay scale. There is a caveat that they may not fully upgrade you to PIC depending on needs for PICs. So there is technically a chance you could still sit as an SIC for awhile even though you would be making PIC pay.

Based on the guys I've seen go to the jet recently, upgrade to FO on the jet is after about 3-4 years flying the King Air. The only people that seem to be bypassed for the jet are those with issues. If you're in good standing, there shouldn't be a problem.

Ok this is getting confusing on the per diem. Let's clarify this to simple dummy. Your allowed 59/65 per day.we got that...as mentioned earlier were not submitting receipts. Within 1-3 weeks we will see the money in our bank accounts. So the big question is are we getting this money regardless when we are on a 8 day tour?

We understand home thing you don’t get it.. no receipts needed and it comes to a separate check....

You claim per diem for every day you spend at work away from your base. If you are assigned home reserve you cannot claim per diem. You just click the "meals - per diem" tab on your expense report and claim $59 if you are in the U.S. or $65 if you're outside the U.S.

At the end of your tour you will submit your expense report with your per diem claims and credit card transactions (hotel bills, airline tickets etc.) All credit card transactions must have a receipt attached to them. The app on your company issued iPhone can capture receipts or you can set it up to match the receipts up electronically. Uber and Lyft can populate to your expense report automatically.


Once you submit your report, a nice lady at company headquarters has the mind numbing task of verifying all the information on your report. If she likes what she sees she will approve the report and you will receive a direct deposit of around $500 for your per diem and tips. This payment is independent of your salary which is paid bi-weekly.

I think that’s probably half the story. I know a couple guys that have been here since near the start that haven’t come over the xl. They’ve got as clean a records as anyone. On the other hand, there are a few sent over with problems in the KA. (Prop strikes, violations, etc). I don’t think there’s a rhyme or reason to any of it. Maybe that will change now that a certain someone has left the building. It used to be the jet was the way better gig. A big reason people wanted to be moved over here. Didn’t work nearly as hard and got more $$$. Not the case on either count anymore. You’re looking at Turbine PIC vs. Jet SIC. Meh. You do get an APU though.

Flying record isn’t everything when it comes to upgrade and transition to the Jet. Timely completion of ALL paperwork and how you interact with everyone, from dispatch and your co-pilot to the FBO staff is included. If you screw up and own up to it, it can be forgiven. If you continually ignore the paperwork involved or our SOPs, prepare to be stuck if not downgraded or dismissed.

Not saying any of these reasons apply to the guys you are talking about, but I guarantee there’s a reason. Especially since now we have to apply to be promoted from within.

I'm in my 4th year now and chose not to move over the XL because I'd loose my $15k check airman stipend. I'm not too bothered about flying a jet, but the APU would be nice.

I’m glad they’ve started that Jobvite site. But I think we might have to just agree to disagree on some things. Hopefully what I’m referring to is all in the past. I’ll leave it there.

I’m just offerring my opinion. I don’t want to start any catfights or anything. This site has enough of them. :). I also don’t want to discourage anyone from coming here. This place has come A LONG way. It’s turned into a good 135. You’ll have a hard time finding much better.

He's asking if you only spend (example) $200 on the road do you get the full amount of per diem. Honestly I read thru the entire thread and I'm still confused how you guys get per diem paid out.

In the airline world you get your $2.00/hr on duty which is about $160 for the four days on duty. You get that regardless if you spent it or not. We do also get crew meals.

Using the words "claim" etc make it all confusing. I have no interest in the company but just found it funny as his question wasn't ever really answered.

59/65 a day. While you are on the road, whether you choose to use it or not. The only difference is it's daily, not hourly. That will cover 2 decent, healthy meals most places we stay. It all averages out. And once you hit gold or diamond status, hilton property breakfast is free.

So in the airline world you quote, you would make $48 per day per diem plus your crew meals (which get old, same thing over and over, been there done that). Claim is a term used since you have to fill out paper work. Let me put it this way. You get $59/day whether you spend $2 or $2000. BUT you don't get it automatically. You MUST file an expense report. This expense report has all your hotels and transportation (Uber or Lyft or cab or rental car) to and from FBO and hotel if no hotel transportation. They are charged on a company issued credit card in each persons name. The company wants to make sure that is a legit expense, so we email our receipts AND on the same expense report put in a "claim" for per diem for each day - $59 domestic or $65 international plus $5 for tips. IF YOU DON'T FILE AN EXPENSE REPORT YOU DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY GET PER DIEM. Hope that clears it up.

I know what you are talking about. It's not enough to keep your head down and stay off the "carpet", you also have to put yourself in the spotlight in a good way. If you are completely off the radar, you become a last name on the list. A lot of guys want to come in, cover their jobs and go home. That's fine, but like any other business with this kind of structure, it's what you do above the requirements that sets you apart. I know you know that, but it's for everyone that maybe wondering.
This is a great place to work, and continues to get better almost every day.

It's ironic that we've been discussing expense reports because not keeping up with those is a sure way to get yourself on the naughty list. From my experience, guys that have made some bonehead moves due to rushing etc. have fessed up and been forgiven. Anything that results in a passenger complaint to Wheels Up though is met with less sympathy. I think that the majority are treated fairly all things considered.
The training, maintenance, hotels benefits etc. are up there with the best of the 135 world in my humble opinion.

Thanks for all the replies it’s much appreciated. Are there lots of chances for off day pay? Say at least 2 or even 4 a month? Unlimited? Would like to work hard for awhile to stash some cash for more investments I have going on. Are they still paying PICs $850 per off day attached to an 8 day rotation?
Also there seems to be a stigma that guys at Wheels work harder than most but watching tails on flightaware it seems like most days are 2-4 legs with like 10 hrs of duty. And the occasional 5 or 6 leg day once a rotation maybe. I know it’s been discussed but is it really that bad?
Also do you guys ever get a/c carts or do you just tolerate the heat? Currently on a jet with great ground air so I’m a bit spoiled.

Dont get us started on tolerating the heat. No, we don’t get ground a/c carts. We get used to putting cockpit window shades up and making sure the passenger windows are fully polarized to block some sun. Oh we can turn the blowers on to circulate the 120 degree air also.
I was told before I came here that most everything is good (pay, health insurance, hotels, etc) but the downside is that you will work your butt off some days.
If you want overtime, you will get it but only starting a tour early or have one end late. Unlikely they will award a couple of days overtime in the middle of your off days due to the airlines costs.

500 bi-weekly isn’t bad. I’ve seen them on flight aware. Gama pushes the duty times..

We are very busy2-4 legs stacks up with the variety of places we go and 5-6 will just flat wear you out. Throw weather in and it's a wonder we don't have more fatigue calls. Plus there's a possibility of switching duty from early to late or vice versa during a tour. You can't tell how much duty time we have by looking at flight aware. I've done 1-2 legs before and had a 14 hr duty day, they'll have you sit around as backup at least for a little while. If the schedule's light and you have no flights you will still be scheduled for some type of duty.
If there is a ground air cart available, we can use it. But it's not very feasible, or effective when I've used it.

Who knew people would be scrambling to fly an XL? Obviously it pays better than the KA at Gama. I know several Netjets pilots who can’t wait to get off that airplane. One guy told me he hates everything about the XL! It’s all relative of course, and opinions vary. I suppose if people were really interested in the XL, it’s a decent bet that Delta Private Jets will hire you into it.

The pay is the same for the King Air, XL and the X.

There used to be a few reasons everyone wanted moved over. Now it doesn’t matter much. It’s a pretty level playing field. Except the whole APU thing.

After today, 95 in San Diego and 114 in Las Vegas, I want that APU!!!! (suffering in the KA) haha!

Seriously? Wow - I am out of the loop. Sorry about that. That’s good news.

Where are the pay rates including second year sic getting pic pay?

How is that good news? 90k for an X Captain???

90K for a King Air is above average. If you don't like the pay scale for the X, fly the King Air instead, then you'll be happy.


No APU or external lav service though.

Yikes - 90K to fly a X as a Captain is not competitive - in this market. Perhaps to fly a KA350 today but not a X.

I thought Gama paid the XL Captains $120-130K at one point? Did the Captain pay for jets actually decline to be even with the King Airs?

King air pay up, jet lay down. Everything is even. Right now I don’t think anyone will make 90 as a X captain, they’re not hiring direct entry, and pay is based on longevity, you don’t go backwards as a line pilot.

OK. You're buzzing around doing 5 legs and sweating your balls off while you're trying to change the medieval lav in between flights. Then someone says come over to the XL or the X for roughly the same $$$. What are you going to do? Would you reply with - "I'm sorry. The $$$ is just too low for that airframe. I won't take the new type rating and the same pay. I'll just stay here in my KA and try to keep the sweat from dripping on the circuit breakers".

Haha! ^^^What he said^^^

Oh I'm not suggesting that you not take the upgrade. But that pay *is* shameful for that airframe. The two can be true at the same time.