FuelJetA

135 Gets a really bad rap, (which it partially deserves) but it is a great place to start. You can get jet time at 1500 hours and a capt upgrade at 3000 or less. I know all the horror stories and tales, but let point out...

regional vs. 135:

Regionals dont pay well - you can make more your first year with 135

they take a long time to upgrade you some as long as 4 years- you can make capt in less than 2 years from 1500 hours and make decent money the whole time.

they make you fly to EWR 2x a day - you get to fly to interesting places and meet interesting people, I have spent a week in Venezuela, St. Thomas, Bahamas, New Orleans, Vegas, SoCal, Seattle, Canada, Ireland and a dozen other places. I have flown...Colin Powell, Bob Dole, Ashley Judd, Stevie Nicks, Montel Williams, John Kerry, Britney Spears, Kid Rock, Pamela Anderson, senators, foreign heads of state and the list continues. However, you do spend a lot of time in Podunk drinking old coffee thinking about your duty time and what you'd like to be doing right about then.

The schedule sucks - the schedule sucks

The airplanes are nice - the airplanes are partially broken

the passengers don't tip - sometimes they tip

You get travel vouchers - you can take people on trips if you are there for a while and have a dead leg...ie I flew (with wife as pax) empty to FXE, dropped wife, picked up pax and went to St. Thomas. She flew Spirit for $300 round trip and met me there, we spent 4 days.

There are positive things about 135. There really are.

Hope this helps!

Pilotpip

Well said FuelJetA! I hope that sabersaurus is treating you well

atpwannabe

So uh,...FuelJetA:

What exactly is Part 135 flying? Excuse my ignorance, but is it corporate, charter or a small non-schedule airline? What exactly are its components and how is the market fairing in that area of the industry? Does missionary flights fall into this category? From what I read what you said on a thread titled "Words of Wisdom", the a/c and salaries and overall job satisfaction seems doable.

HuronPlt

What do you guys think?
I'm sittin on 2044TT, 1158ME (B200), 680PIC, a B200 type, ATP and all the other minor stuff. All my ME time is overseas/intl stuff, pretty decent experience I'd think. I've got between 30-40 resumes/applications in with no decent bites yet (a buddy sent my info into Colgan and Mesa, they called for interviews but I don't want to go down that road if I dont have to, Got an interview with a 91/135 op out of Tampa but they wanted to pay 20-22k for FO on a CE650... besides not payin bills, I thought it a little insulting to pilots everywhere and waaay under the average, I passed).

Now.....would it be at all benificial to go out and pick up a type in, say, the ubiquitous little Lears or the Citations even though I would have 0 time in them.....or, bite the bullet and take anything flyin any kind of twin that comes around till I hit that 2500hr mark that most places seem to be lookin for?

Any ideas? Any other tack I should consider!
Thanks,
HP

Pilotpip

You'll make less at colgan or mesa the first couple years. Welcome to the fold, the pay at the bottom is insulting but as long as there are trustafarians out there that don't have to worry about things like food, shelter, and all the other fun stuff that comes up in day to day living, we're stuck with it.

PS: B-200s don't require a type rating in the US. They're under 12,500 max gross.

Schnides

Pilotpip... The BE 200s flown by the military are called C-12s. They're slightly beefed up from the factory, so their MTOW is over 12,500. The FAA gives military C-12 pilots a BE-200 type rating with ATP privilages. It's a bit strange, but yes there are BE 200 types out there. I have one as well.

How's it hang'n AJ? Yes.. bite the bullet and take multi anything job.. PIC 121, DEC, interviews are good opportunities...

bluestarairtaxi

I am so new to aviation that my paint has not dried- so i read and take notes. One thing ive noticed is how much everyone seems to ***** about this and that. Like most of you, i dont have rich parents and like most of you, i have had to scrape what" extra" cash i had together for flight lessons. Some folks on this site have hundreds or even 1000's of hours. add it up. 500 hrs @ 150.00 and hour is a lot of cash. and i guess what blows my mind is 500 hundred is peanuts. ( again-newby )

Then i started to look into schools like atp and the lot. 60,000.00 bucks. wow.
I ask-so what do i get for that- enough hours to get hired somewere?? NOOOOp.[CFI at a fight school to build time] must have a MINIMUM of 1500 hours pic mei turbine time with a PhD trown in- and then you still an't there yet. 250000 dollers later- no i havent but know most of you folks have spent this and more. For what?? 100,000 or less per year and a life of stress. NOPE- not for me. however.....

What is for me is part 135 single pilot. 500 hours and im making $$. Laugh if you want but if it the aircab or taxi thing is good enough for Bob Crandall- its good for me.

- I figure in the next 5 - 10 years the flying public will catch on to the fact that there are more than 5 airports in the usa. I live in dfw and i know of at least 2. poking fun here. If the trend of repairing and exspanding our local and regional airports continues as it has become a "national priorty" to upgrade or transportation network. @ KGKY in Arlington Tx, we are FINALLY getting an control tower,ILS and 2000' of runway additional to the 6000' we already have.
big deal right?? consiter we have four schools, three or more jet charter services. No Tower.

My Point
If you {no one spacific person here} got the brains to learn all thats required to get ALL the ratings required to fly people- than what is keeping you from NETWORKING and finding out what it takes to get a Part 135 anything going. Money- well there money avalible, you just go to hunt for it. plenty of people will partner with the intention of making more money. If you had to choose between working from a major carrier who basicly owns you for many years to come - or work for yourself- just takes longer to build a rep and get things moving.
Just My Opinon
Blue

PS The comments made here are from a crazy person-pay no attention go him................

freezingflyboy

Understand the newby status and I'm going to try and clear up a few misconceptions in your post.

Those 1000s of hours you see weren't bought at the local FBO flying a 172 with a CFI sitting next to them. I stopped paying for flight time (meaning training) at around 300 hours after getting my CFI and CFII then I did my MEI at the flight school I taught at for a significantly cheaper rate. Now, except for the occasional personal flight with the girlfriend I am getting PAID for those hours I am accumulating and I am pretty sure that is true of most others on this board.

Unless you are older (30s-40s) and want to get into aviation fast, there is NO reason to pay as much as those schools want. Even those older guys who plunk down the cash for it will probably never see a return on their investment. They would be better off buying bonds or CDs with their money but still some people do it... The advantage is that some of those programs have deals with airlines to hire grads at significantly lower time than someone off the street. I'm not sure where you got the idea that you need 1500 PIC turbine and a PHd to get an airline job. You can get on with most regionals with 800TT and 100ME without too much trouble. And besides, instructing at an FBO will be some of the most fun you have flying and you will LEARN a hell of a lot more than some 300 hour wonder pushing buttons at FL350. As far as a degree, yes a 4 year degree is "preferred" (meaning required) but a PHd? Give me a break....

That 500 hours for 135 PIC is to fly in JUST VFR conditions (and FYI I was instructing with less than 400 hours and making money). So that means you are either flying on bright sunny days or you are scud-running on those murky days. A quick trip to the NTSB database will illustrate the mortality rate of that endeavor. If you want to fly in IFR single-pilot you are going to need to reach much higher 135 PIC mins. 135.243(c) states you need 1200 total flight time, 500 hours cross country flight time, 100 hours at night, 75 hours of instrument time to act as PIC under IFR.

Now you are right, you are much better off in ANY industry if you are in a position to control your own fate. But aviation is a tough business with a high cost of entry, huge operating costs and relatively small profit margins. There is only one way I know of to make a little money in aviation - start out with A LOT of money. Hope this helps. Good luck in whatever you decide.

FuelJetA

I'd like to know why people on this board are so against being a flight instructor? I was an instructor and still am. I am damned proud of it and my experiences resulting from it. As a CFII I gained more instrument knowledge doing it everyday than I did in the 135 world in a full year of 700 flying hours. I was also an MEI and got 500 multi hours in just over a year doing that. I will ALWAYS have a CFI, CFII, and MEI. I worked harder to earn those ratings and they paid more than any others to me (easily more important than my ATP.)
Take it from someone who's had his hound kicked around in the aviation world. If you want to move up quickly, just teach, enjoy the year or two that you do and move on, but when you start making the big bucks, remember what ratings got you there. The CFI, CFII, and MEI are my roots and I won't leave them behind.

Just my .02

Take care!

aspiring_pilot

im outta skymates at gky