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Old 07-16-2008, 06:56 AM   #1  
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Default Small Part 135 operators

Hello, I'm a new member and brand new pilot. My goal is to instruct and fly charter part-time. Realisticly I would like to instruct locally and fly in a ME aircraft for a charter company. If a company is operating a piston ME aircraft and fly with a SIC, what hours realisticly would they look for in a SIC pilot. Also, realisticly are there many operations flying twin piston aircraft with a SIC? I'm also kind of assuming that my first flying job outside of instruting would be the right seat of a twin piston. Is it realistic to expect/look for/want to fly right seat in a twin piston? Thanks for everyones time,

safe flying
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:27 AM   #2  
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Might be worth it to spend a few bucks on climbto350.com to get an idea of what companies are looking for, and willing to pay.
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:32 AM   #3  
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sellener,

what kind of hours do you have and what's your location?

Ryan
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:43 AM   #4  
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For all this to happen, I assume you're living in or around a larger metropolitian area. Flight instructing part is probably the easiest to get, seeing how there seems to be an abundance of these jobs, but for how long, I don't know.

As far as the 135 side, this is sticky. Contacts/connections with someone if you're low time, and low-time for me as far as a commercial pilot position is less than 1000 hrs. There are operators that use 2 pilots in twin-piston planes, mainly C421's, C414's, PA31's, and occasionally the lighter Be58's and C310's. Most likely a lot of these "positions" are going to be very low pay, and you're there for the sake of Insurance, not FAA reasons.

99% of these you will not be legal to log the SIC time, because all of these planes are single-pilot approved, and I'm almost 100% guarantee'd that they have an autopilot, so even 135 they don't need the SIC. You can log any 91 legs assuming you have all endorsements including High-Perf, High-Alt, etc..(421s'/414's require high-alt endorsement).

So "realistically" speaking, looking for these positions as a way to get your foot in the door, is not a bad way to do it, but it's not always the easiest of ways. I do think it offers some real-world experience if you can get into something of this nature because you can see how the pro's do it on a day-to-day basis. It will not be a good source of income in most situations, unless turbine equipement is involved, and also a lower time-building venture as well, but I feel in this case it's "quality" vs. "quantity" of hours that really matter.
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:09 PM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewfflyer View Post
99% of these you will not be legal to log the SIC time, because all of these planes are single-pilot approved, and I'm almost 100% guarantee'd that they have an autopilot, so even 135 they don't need the SIC. You can log any 91 legs assuming you have all endorsements including High-Perf, High-Alt, etc..(421s'/414's require high-alt endorsement).

I don't believe it matters that they have an autopilot. Two pilots are required under pt. 135 for IFR. An exception to the rule is made if there is an operating, approved autopilot, and in this case one pilot is allowed. Doesn't mean that two pilots are NOT allowed.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:36 PM   #6  
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Yeah, that's an OpSpec you can get, but in general, I'd say charter customers probably feel more comfortable with two pilots.

There are companies that will hire you with less than 135 PIC mins, but you have to meet people. I should know, since I'm employed by such a company. But I never would have gotten the job if I hadn't talked to the CP for 30 minutes at a job fair. Most of my fellow instructors talked to the airlines, but my buddy and I talked to the 135 outfit. We both got called, the others have run into the downturn at the airlines. A matter of timing and choices is status quo in this industry.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:49 AM   #7  
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I don't believe it matters that they have an autopilot. Two pilots are required under pt. 135 for IFR. An exception to the rule is made if there is an operating, approved autopilot, and in this case one pilot is allowed. Doesn't mean that two pilots are NOT allowed.

Basically any mid-light twin w/ an approved autopilot(I'd say 100% of them that are used for hauling pax), then you're not required an SIC. Some Ops specs have special wording approved by their FSDO to use an SIC, and let that SIC log that time pending check-rides etc....

I never said you can't put a second pilot in that seat, I'm just saying that they can't log the time unless there's a provision for that. SIC in a baron/C310 isn't going to impress anyone, but for the purpose of building time to get onto that companies roster once you hit the 1200TT.
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:49 AM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppilot View Post
I don't believe it matters that they have an autopilot. Two pilots are required under pt. 135 for IFR. An exception to the rule is made if there is an operating, approved autopilot, and in this case one pilot is allowed. Doesn't mean that two pilots are NOT allowed.
According to 61.51, you can not log SIC time unless the SIC is required. Having an autopilot dis-requires the SIC, so you can not log it. You are certainly allowed to sit there and even perform the duties of an SIC, but since you aren't required, you cant log SIC.

But then again, it's your logbook. Log whatever you want.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:56 AM   #9  
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Originally Posted by friendlyskies View Post
According to 61.51, you can not log SIC time unless the SIC is required. Having an autopilot dis-requires the SIC, so you can not log it. You are certainly allowed to sit there and even perform the duties of an SIC, but since you aren't required, you cant log SIC.

But then again, it's your logbook. Log whatever you want.
That's what I was looking for, but didn't have my FAR/AIM with me!
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:52 PM   #10  
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That's why alot of companies disable the auto-pilot, so the SICs can log their time... Pencil whip baby! lol
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