aopa pilot caravan article
03-10-2009, 09:59 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by Ewfflyer
Same reason I don't, limited quantity. I don't have the numbers, but 2hrs quantity if I remember right, and that's not even on high. Then you also have to carry the stuff around because you're going to who-knows where that doesn't have it. It's expensive to buy at $11.50/gal in a 55gal drum($16/gal if you buy it in small quantities). She's ferrying these planes across the pond, and I'm thinking TKS fluid is on the short list of items fuel stops carry on the way over.
Another thing not to like is they are counting on prop-spray to cover the "pod" and I don't know what they are doing for the windshield. Preferably, a FIKI plane in my eyes has a hot-plate or windshield, I've flown a few alki windshields, and sure they clear the ice, but it's really the lesser of the two evils because you still can't see through the alki if you don't time it right if the ceilings are low. They work great when you have about a 1000+ft ceiling, because it gives it time to clear, but anything less with icing down to the surface is bad!
Another thing not to like is they are counting on prop-spray to cover the "pod" and I don't know what they are doing for the windshield. Preferably, a FIKI plane in my eyes has a hot-plate or windshield, I've flown a few alki windshields, and sure they clear the ice, but it's really the lesser of the two evils because you still can't see through the alki if you don't time it right if the ceilings are low. They work great when you have about a 1000+ft ceiling, because it gives it time to clear, but anything less with icing down to the surface is bad!
System has worked well when I have used it in moderate conditions only using normal flow, just get it on early. You will be able to get a good idea of the icing conditions by looking at the tie downs if the fluid seems to be keeping the rest of the aircraft clear. Fluid kept the pod clear the first time in moderate conditions and the ice was evident upon landing when we inspected the spinner and nose wheel which had a decent crusting on them.
The aircraft is equipped with windshield spray bar but your are required to stop using it before descending below 500' on an app. The fluid from the prop keeps the windshield clear whenever I have had to use the system. However I do like big electric heated windshields but they are about $15-$20K a pop but it should have been an option. Hot plates: never used em, but heard a lot of negative and I would prefer TKS over the later (judged from what I have seen so far).
System works well so far for me. Staying in any ice that you are not sure about for more than 3 hrs is not something that interests me, I’d rather divert and take a time out if that option was available, as long as I was not on an oceanic ferry! That’s not my arena though, but would like to do it someday. If you are out of fluid, agreed, not good.
The low airspeed awareness system, which we can probably thank lawyers for, SUCKS! It is activated by the pitot heat and bellows a horn worse than the stall system when are landing and freaks out your pax. This in my opinion will just make pilots turn it off close to the ground which is just another distraction we don't need, bad idea Cessna, along with the VERY sensitive stall warning, another issue which will lead to people pulling breakers.
Icing to the surface could be an issue, and the fluid can be a pain if you have a decent coating on the windshield but the like I said, the prop has kept it clear for me so far and we have had a heavy winter this year.
Wind over 40kts close the ground keeps you busy and may require two hands sometimes, that is my biggest gripe about the van.
As far as the PT6 goes, the biggest issue is having several people using it, treating differently, and treating it badly. Training is the key there. The great thing is that whoever over torques it and tries to deny it is due for a carpet dance, you can't hide your screw ups so don't try! Be nice to the PT6 and keep an eye on its trends. If the FCU fails you do have the EPL. Engine driven fuel pump saying bye bye, well what can I say, life is full of risks. Pick another career if you want guarantees.
Great machine hauls a ton of weight and is a comfortable office.
03-10-2009, 01:14 PM
#33
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Former Freight Doggy
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by fr8av8r_66
I remember some of the 'short busses' came from MartinAire... N9642F sticks in my head. It even still had the Cessna 300 radios and autopilot in it at the time. What a winner with 600 SHP, cargo pod and 3000 LBS of HAZMAT in the back. Good times! 
03-10-2009, 04:37 PM
#34
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Originally Posted by JUG47
20 Gallon tank will last for 3.4 hrs on normal flow, 1.3 hrs on high flow, Max airframe flow will last 40 mins.
System has worked well when I have used it in moderate conditions only using normal flow, just get it on early. You will be able to get a good idea of the icing conditions by looking at the tie downs if the fluid seems to be keeping the rest of the aircraft clear. Fluid kept the pod clear the first time in moderate conditions and the ice was evident upon landing when we inspected the spinner and nose wheel which had a decent crusting on them.
The aircraft is equipped with windshield spray bar but your are required to stop using it before descending below 500' on an app. The fluid from the prop keeps the windshield clear whenever I have had to use the system. However I do like big electric heated windshields but they are about $15-$20K a pop but it should have been an option. Hot plates: never used em, but heard a lot of negative and I would prefer TKS over the later (judged from what I have seen so far).
System works well so far for me. Staying in any ice that you are not sure about for more than 3 hrs is not something that interests me, I’d rather divert and take a time out if that option was available, as long as I was not on an oceanic ferry! That’s not my arena though, but would like to do it someday. If you are out of fluid, agreed, not good.
The low airspeed awareness system, which we can probably thank lawyers for, SUCKS! It is activated by the pitot heat and bellows a horn worse than the stall system when are landing and freaks out your pax. This in my opinion will just make pilots turn it off close to the ground which is just another distraction we don't need, bad idea Cessna, along with the VERY sensitive stall warning, another issue which will lead to people pulling breakers.
Icing to the surface could be an issue, and the fluid can be a pain if you have a decent coating on the windshield but the like I said, the prop has kept it clear for me so far and we have had a heavy winter this year.
Wind over 40kts close the ground keeps you busy and may require two hands sometimes, that is my biggest gripe about the van.
As far as the PT6 goes, the biggest issue is having several people using it, treating differently, and treating it badly. Training is the key there. The great thing is that whoever over torques it and tries to deny it is due for a carpet dance, you can't hide your screw ups so don't try! Be nice to the PT6 and keep an eye on its trends. If the FCU fails you do have the EPL. Engine driven fuel pump saying bye bye, well what can I say, life is full of risks. Pick another career if you want guarantees.
Great machine hauls a ton of weight and is a comfortable office.
System has worked well when I have used it in moderate conditions only using normal flow, just get it on early. You will be able to get a good idea of the icing conditions by looking at the tie downs if the fluid seems to be keeping the rest of the aircraft clear. Fluid kept the pod clear the first time in moderate conditions and the ice was evident upon landing when we inspected the spinner and nose wheel which had a decent crusting on them.
The aircraft is equipped with windshield spray bar but your are required to stop using it before descending below 500' on an app. The fluid from the prop keeps the windshield clear whenever I have had to use the system. However I do like big electric heated windshields but they are about $15-$20K a pop but it should have been an option. Hot plates: never used em, but heard a lot of negative and I would prefer TKS over the later (judged from what I have seen so far).
System works well so far for me. Staying in any ice that you are not sure about for more than 3 hrs is not something that interests me, I’d rather divert and take a time out if that option was available, as long as I was not on an oceanic ferry! That’s not my arena though, but would like to do it someday. If you are out of fluid, agreed, not good.
The low airspeed awareness system, which we can probably thank lawyers for, SUCKS! It is activated by the pitot heat and bellows a horn worse than the stall system when are landing and freaks out your pax. This in my opinion will just make pilots turn it off close to the ground which is just another distraction we don't need, bad idea Cessna, along with the VERY sensitive stall warning, another issue which will lead to people pulling breakers.
Icing to the surface could be an issue, and the fluid can be a pain if you have a decent coating on the windshield but the like I said, the prop has kept it clear for me so far and we have had a heavy winter this year.
Wind over 40kts close the ground keeps you busy and may require two hands sometimes, that is my biggest gripe about the van.
As far as the PT6 goes, the biggest issue is having several people using it, treating differently, and treating it badly. Training is the key there. The great thing is that whoever over torques it and tries to deny it is due for a carpet dance, you can't hide your screw ups so don't try! Be nice to the PT6 and keep an eye on its trends. If the FCU fails you do have the EPL. Engine driven fuel pump saying bye bye, well what can I say, life is full of risks. Pick another career if you want guarantees.
Great machine hauls a ton of weight and is a comfortable office.
Now compared to the Hot-plates/heated windshields, yes they are expensive, but when you got icing all the way to the surface, they are priceless!!!
I don't know of too many replacements on most planes, more likely on a pressurized aircraft, but I have seen it in non-pressurized. I fly meridians, tbm's, and flown a variety of other combinations of heated window's, and the tks windshields on the old C310's, and I'm just a strong advocate for the electric versions over fluids.
03-10-2009, 05:58 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by Ewfflyer
Breaking it down, it still is a $100+/hr to use the TKS system on this aircraft!!!!! I know that folks won't use it all the time, but still when it is needed and in use, it's pretty pricey.
Now compared to the Hot-plates/heated windshields, yes they are expensive, but when you got icing all the way to the surface, they are priceless!!!
I don't know of too many replacements on most planes, more likely on a pressurized aircraft, but I have seen it in non-pressurized. I fly meridians, tbm's, and flown a variety of other combinations of heated window's, and the tks windshields on the old C310's, and I'm just a strong advocate for the electric versions over fluids.
Now compared to the Hot-plates/heated windshields, yes they are expensive, but when you got icing all the way to the surface, they are priceless!!!
I don't know of too many replacements on most planes, more likely on a pressurized aircraft, but I have seen it in non-pressurized. I fly meridians, tbm's, and flown a variety of other combinations of heated window's, and the tks windshields on the old C310's, and I'm just a strong advocate for the electric versions over fluids.
I do love electric heat too, I believe Cessna got out of it and they are now an aftermarket product. The 402 has a fantastic heated windsheild, this is what the Caravan needs.
The one thing I will not miss about boots is the 20 patches you see out there collecting great amounts of ice because the boss is a tight ass.
Apart from the Caravan I have only seen the old spray system on the Dash 8 and it seemed to work well.
TBM must be fun.
11-24-2014, 06:04 PM
#36
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: Deployed Reservist
Posts: 77
aopa pilot caravan article
I love the Cessna Caravan! It's the perfect next step for a CFI who's been sitting in the right seat of a 172 (mostly) for a few years. It's a real no tricks, K.I.S.S. airplane for getting comfortable in LIFR. The stability and forgiveness of this airframe has saved many times more pilots than it's icing characteristics has harmed. Just don't fly for a company that doesn't recognize your authority to cancel for icing conditions beyond the capability of your aircraft. I have and would happily continue to bet my life on the PT6.....unless of course I swap planes with careless pilots who over torque and over temp without reporting it. This is what I am convinced happened to the "caravans with engine issues" a couple pilots have written about. Some low bidding cargo feeders and I'm pretty sure, drop zones just don't train well enough on operating the engine. Like any machine, the PT6 will only treat you as well as you treat it.
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