I can't answer that because I don't know. My sim partner had around 350 but it probably varies based on several factors, just a guess.

Awesome, thanks!

Sure! Around 600 TT 500PIC 60Simulated , pretty easy..
Thanks a lot ! Are you currently working for SAE?

Will an email to Julie suffice or should I give them a call a couple weeks after to follow up? I'm at 265 TT, Commercial ASEL and AMEL with Instrument.

They ask for 500 TT minimum

So is it a FLOW through to Mesa or a PATHWAY PROGRAM?

Do you remember how long the training was?

It is three to four weeks as I recall.

I emailed them with 440 TT, 350 pic and 20 multi but did not receive a response.

A few questions
 

Are all of the aircraft equipped with the 530's and steam gauges? Any glass panels?
I see they have flight benefits. Do any of the pilots commute? Any crash pads?
The FO position pay of $12 @ 65 guarantee or even the $18 @65 guarantee is below the national poverty level. How much flying do you typically get per month?
How fast can you upgrade to captain? I meet most of the captain requirements minus the Caravan experience and the turbine time. Any chance they will wave these based on other experience, ie multi-engine time, dual given?

Thats pretty abusive pay, why would you want to endure that? There are many other better paying/better qol jobs out there.

I think anyone without there ATP(1500hrs) should work for a living and teach, hence....CFI

Southern has a mixed fleet of 208A, B's and EX's - and same with the cockpits.

Mokulele's fleet (SAE is now overseeing all hiring for MW) is all G1000 equipped 208Bs - all EX's I believe.

Not sure if you can ask for Moku or if its just assigned to you.

I interviewed recently, if anyone has any questions let me know. I’m waitlisted for the June class!

MW is all G1000, but a mix of Legacy and EX. LAX has two newer Legacy aircraft with G1000.

Congrats on getting hired. Mind sharing your time at application. Based on some recent comments, it seems like their hiring criteria has gone up to a minimum of 500 hours and a ME even though they only fly single turbine.

I have a little over 300TT. They do require a ME Commercial. They “prefer” 500, but not required from my understanding.

Thank you for your generosity! Wondering if the flow to Mesa is required if hired?
I realize the pay is low but I understand the turbine time is pretty valuable.
I emailed Julie but did not call yet. I will soon though because I have not received a response.
We're at 440TT, 20Multi, 120xc P-P
Commercial Pilot;
Airplane Single, Multiengine Land
Instrument Airplane
And do have the AGI and IGI. Currently working on CFI then will get the II. Getting these ratings has been extremely fun!
I guess if hired, SAE would allow me to do CFI work on the side if hired? I understand it's 4 days on 4 days off.

Thanks!

They don’t do the Mesa flow anymore, they have a new program with SkyWest that I believe you have to be apart of if wanting to fly with SAE. She’s really busy, and even told me she tries to get to everyone at some point but they get a ton of applications. But I’m not too sure on the side CFI gig. I know you can pick up trips on your day off and potentially fly up to 110 hours a month.

why do you say that? thats better than a real scheduled airline job flying in busy airports with weather with pax?

In regards to pay...
 

Thanks for this info. So from another post someone said you only get paid for the “flight time?”

How many hours of “flight time” do you average in one month? For instance if you average 80 hours @ 12 = $960
Is this correct? After taxes you are only getting paid like $700 a month? Am I missing something?

CFI @ 80 hours billable per month @ $27 = $2160 or $1600

That is almost $1000 difference.

I know both CFI and SAE FO is a stepping stone for bigger and better, but SAE seems extremely low.

My two cents, as a United pilot who mentors numerous pilots. I have my own simulator business and I specialize in preparing pilots for 121/135 simulator training.

I’ve worked with a lot of older pilots (mid to late 50’s) who have been out of aviation for 10 to 30 years and or getting a late start and now taking the plunge to be full time 121 pilots. Many hope to make it to the low cost carrier level (JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier etc.) some even Legacy (AA, DAL & UAL). We at United are hiring a lot of pilots in mid 50’s and even flown with a new hire who is 61.

I’ve worked with a few pilots the last few years at Southern & Mouleke (Southern bought Mokulele, but they operate separately). I recommend these two carriers highest over any other 135 pilot jobs, why?

Two pilot regional airline, flying 6 to 8 legs a day in high density, lots of actual instrument. Hand flying multiple high speed approaches 120 to 140 KTS into class B & C busy airline airports. Southern pilots are averaging 85 plus hours a month (some as high as 100 to 120 per month). Mokulele averaging 70 to 85 hours per month or more. Most of the pilots I’ve mentored had around 800 to 1000 hours when they have gotten hired. Within 2 to 4 months they upgrade to CA at 1200 hours (135 CA mins) and as soon as they hit 1500 (regional mins) they leave for a Regional.

Southern pays I believe $12 per hour as FO (I now that sucks) and almost 70K as Captain and Mokulele is about double for FO’s but less
for CA’s.

I’ve found older pilots have a harder time getting through Regional training - big jump from a 172 to a transport category jet aircraft. Even though most Regionals have added sim sessions some as high as 12 to 15 (about half of what larger airlines give new hires) there is still a 10 to 20 percent wash out rate. Much easier transition coming from Southern (Caravan) to the regionals and they are significantly more prepared vs coming straight from flight instructing.

For the younger guys, if you can get hired as an FO for Southern or Mokulele I’d go in a NY second. Much more competitive to get on with low time vs higher time at these airlines. If you have 1000 to 1200 hours, very easy to get hired.

I flight instructed 34 years ago and there is absolutely nothing wrong with building your time this way. But in all honestly coming from the right or left seat of a caravan in a two pilot airline operation you are far more ready to successfully make the jump to a regional vs coming straight out of the flight instructor ranks.

As far as any flow through to the Regionals, heck with that. If you have 1500 hours, a Medical and a heart beat you will get hired by any regional you want. Southern or Mokulele can’t make you go to a specific regional. Say yes to whatever they say want you to when they hire you, but when you leave Southern or Mouleke then go anywhere you want.

Best of luck to all. Global pilot shortage coming to Low Cost Carriers and Legacies in 5 to 10 years. Going to be much easier to get on with Legacy then vs today (today still extremely competitive).

At Southern you can easily average 100 flying hours per month if you work hard. I believe Mokulele is salary and Southern is per block flying hour. So 100 hours pays $1200 as an FO.

No doubt FO Pay sucks. But your far more qualified for a regional (getting through training not getting job) out of an two pilot airline operation then flight instructing.

Once you upgrade at Southern you’ll make a lot more then a flight instructor. Maybe the compromise is flight instruct to 800 to 1000 hours then only a few months as FO till you upgrade. Get that last 500 to 700 hours really fast.

In addition to the great points above, consider this:

Age aside, these operations introduce you to Ops Specs, Very Specific FARs, Exemptions, MELs, Maintenance, Flight duty day limits, Dispatch, Security, Gates Agents, Rampers, Chief Pilot Office, Management, Scheduled Service, and most importantly PASSENGERS.

There is so much to learn, and as a brand new 1200 Hour CA, these types of jobs are amazing at teaching responsibility, decision making, and mentorship of an FO. In a small operation like these, the CA runs the show and many in the operation are looking to him or her for answers.

Maintenance could pressure you to take a questionable airplane, a CP may ask why you decided to delay for weather, an MEL may not be complied with properly. All these things will allow you to cut your teeth on airline operations. At the end of the day, a CA has the same responsibilities whether it be a Caravan, an RJ, or a 777.

Lastly, the friends you make at a place like this will last through your career, the bonds made are strong through such challenges.

Exactly! That’s why a CA after starting out as an FO at an airline operation (even flying a single engine turboprop) is superior in every way experience wise vs only building hours as a CFI, if your goal is to be an airline pilot.

Extremely helpful information Boeing Aviator!!! Thank you! I’m sure others will also benefit from your response. Lots to think about. I’m one of those guys changing careers in my mid 40’s (in aviation all throughout and always current with my PPL now a CSE) so CFI has come up as I have a family and doing the CFI route would provide a better QOL for my family (2 kids under 3) as we move to a city in which I can CFI, join a regional, and hopefully a major all at domicile without the commute. SAE has been a strong consideration and continues. However, the possibility of being an FO at LNS upgrading to CA and having to move to PNS in a short time is not as easy if I was 24. Once I hit 1500 another move to _____...?
What I’m saying minimizing the moves from potentially 3 if not 4 to maybe just 1. I will strongly consider what you said about succeeding in training coming from a 135 operation rather than CFI. I can appreciate your input being a mentor to guys in this industry.

I was just going by what someone else mentioned in this thread regarding pay for “flight hours”. If that is not the case that is welcome news! Thanks

I have no doubt these smaller operations teach you so much about the job responsibilities and how to handle so many situations and unpredictable things. A really hands on experience. One thing that has come up, if pilots are pursuing the majors, it’s my understanding the majors want to see the CFI experience since the CA is that mentor to the FO. The CFI naturally molds you to that teaching experience. In an ideal situation it be great to have both I would think?

Why would anyone in this market accept lower than 40k a year?

I’m as strong a union pilot as the next. The answer is it’s all about a seniority number. The difference at my airline between when I got hired and 10 months later over the last 32 years was huge in terms of pay and quality of life. My career as a whole has been significantly better then the guy hired 10 months after me.

If your goal is a legacy (AA, DAL, UAL, SWA or Fedex & UPS - top tier pilot jobs) its a race to get there as soon as you can.

So to answer you question. If flying at Southern gets you to a Regional significantly faster then flight instructing or other 135 flying jobs, then that in turn gets you too a top level flying job faster, that’s saving you (or portentously costing) you big bucks!

Plus what if you save yourself several years getting to a top level flying job. Let’s say you miss a hiring waive and have to wait several years for your next opportunity. That’s going to cost you big bucks.

First year pay at most top tier companies 70 to
90K. Second year over 100K to 150K. Five year Widebody FO’s or junior Narrow body Captains way over 200K. Top pay 300K to 450K. It’s a race to the big leagues and seniority is everything. You want to get their the fastest and need to build time in a hurry best bet is Southern. My humble opinion anyway.

I understand chasing pay ( I use to be like that but now solely a QOL guy) but when people accept that bad of pay its just giving companies more power to keep the wages low. I knew of a few 500~ hour jobs that paid 75-100k starting in relatively low cost areas to live. Now that is rare, but the local bottom feeder paying gigs were always advertising for pilots but couldn't get anyone in the door due to people holding out for the next open position at a higher paying place. Ive also worked somewhere near a few pilot mill schools where guys were getting paid 25-30k to fly citations, challengers, and a gulfstream. They knew they had a steady stream of people willing to be paid low ( or even pay) to sit in that right seat. (side note even the captain pay was insultingly low.)

We have seen in the past that refusing low pay will better our industry. The airlines use to pay nothing, so people went to the 135 side. Then the airlines started paying better, people started moving back over to 121 carriers so 135 guys started to raise their pay. And the cycle should continue as such. With the new PSA payscale coming out I believe that other regionals will follow suit (if they havent already) that will force all companies to either match or raise their pay or risk losing their employees.

The first thing I tell my old flight students when they text me asking about jobs is "Your aviation education and experience is valuable. Know your worth."

I’m right there with you. I understand it’s hard to turn down a turbine flying job, but in this market, no one should be flying passengers at those wages.

And the double kicker is the training contract. If you’re going to pay me 2007 wages, I better be able to walk whenever I want, and owe nothing.

I did speak to Julie and what a sweet lady, I would love to meet her in person one day! I told her I have decided to finish/work as a CFI and would call her once closer to captain minimums. Mentoring FOs would be a dream come true! However, I didn't think to ask her what type of questions she would ask during the interview.:rolleyes:

Being a CFI is a tremendous responsibility. After having a few close calls (think collisions) inflight, I think I am slowly realizing what else this might mean. Pilots that suddenly show up in a uncontrolled traffic pattern without making a radio call 10 miles out, probably had never been taught differently by their CFI. E.g. twice in the last three month at different fields, I was practicing right seat, short field landings making announcements via radio, cw, dw, base, on short final, suddenly out of the blue, a pilot announced he was on a half mile final ILS approach, heading directly toward me from the opposite end of the runway. I ask him his intentions and got no response. Maneuvering at low altitudes (in a landing configuration) to get away from a approaching aircraft is no fun!
Again, it comes back to the CFI's responsibility to be a good example and to NOT produce pilots that are a threat to Safety. I am sure the ATC staff would agree.
CFI, responsibility.....
Ding ding ding.. I think I see the light!:eek:

The color of the pilots hair has no impact in good decision making, black, gray, blonde, red, white... :)

Unfortunately, I was not able to see the difference till I met a great CFIl....

If I ever hear the "Anyone in the traffic pattern?" I want to just tell them to read AC-90-66B but for a multitude of reasons I respond with my position.

I've only been instructing for 50 hours but it is definitely a high responsibility. A Sentry comes in handy...

Everyone has to make their own decisions and a career in this industry has and always will been a crapshoot.

Let me tell you about a good friend of mine. I met him in the mid 90’s when he was a CFI going through a career change in his late 30’s. Back then that was like someone today switching to aviation on their mid 50’s.

In the 90’s most regionals had pay for training. You had to pay $10,000 (mid 90’s dollars) for your initial training at Flight Safety for an FO position at a regional. After that you had to suffer through pathetic new hire pay. $12,000 a year comes to mind.

My friend saw most of his fellow instructors go to Continental Express with pay for training. Continental Express had a true flow through to Continental at the time. My friend refused to go to any regional that had pay for training on principle.

He ended up going the 135 route flying King Airs
and worked his way to CA and then to Chief Pilot. He stayed there for several years and had me walk in his paperwork to Continental at around the same time his former CFI buddies were flowing up to Continental.

I was told by the head of Hiring at Continental in the late 90’s, my friend needed 121 time and they wouldn’t look at him seriously until he had some. I argued he had several thousand hours turbo prop PIC and was a Chief Pilot. That landed on deaf ears.

Based on that my friend left his cushy corporate job for American Eagle, one of only two or so regionals at the time that didn’t have pay for training. They were a sought after Regional (because of No PFT) and hired much higher time pilots. Most had several thousand hours and at least a few hundred to 500 multi on average. They also averaged an 8 year upgrade vs. a year or two at all PFT regionals. Other Regionals with PFT we’re hiring 1000 to 1500 hour pilots.

My friend stayed through 9/11 then left for North American a former 757/757 charter airline. He stayed there until 2005 when I helped him get on with Continental.

All his friends who went to Continental Express in the late 90’s through pay for training (my friend could had easily gone to COEX when all his friends did) and were at least 1000 to 1500 numbers ahead of him on the seniority list and never furloughed after 9/11. After the merger of United and Continental that seniority difference became several thousand numbers.

Today he is a bottom reserve CA on the 737 in Houston. All his friends that did PFT are mid level 737/A320 Or lower tier 757/767 CA’s. His career is significantly worse because of the path he chose based on principal and its cost him at least half a million to a million in career earnings and most importantly significantly less quality of life.

At an airline seniority is everything and get there as fast as you can. In this business you never know when the music will stop. When it does you hope your at a good place career wise.

To each his/her own and good luck to all. If it was me and the pilots I train and mentor. I tell them to go to Southern and get the time and move on ASAP. Flying a 100 hours a month You’ll be a far better trained pilot and very much ready for the transition to the regionals vs as being a CFI.

SAE is paying the FO 12.00 per hr for the first six month block then 18.00.
Does anyone know if the contract is in place before ground training? FOs do get assigned a domicile after ground training as I understand it.
Do FOs usually move to assigned domiciles or do they commute?
It is kind of overwhelming when one considers FO pay, signing contract, plus not knowing if you will be assigned to the Gulf Region or Mid Atlantic Region till after ground training.
Judy did say she is reasonably sure one can get assigned to the region desired but no guarantees.

I’ll ask your questions to one of the pilots I mentor who works there. Off the top of my head. Contract starts after Sim training, Flight Safety in a Wichita (for initial) Fly Right in NC for CA upgrade.

Domicile assigned after training. It’s by a bid. You can switch bases as openings occur. Most pilots have a crash pad or rent a room. Long 12 hour days and usually 4 on 4 off or 4 on 3 off. Most pilots commute.

Most pilots get Mid Atlantic but some do get other areas.

Thank you for your help, it is appreciated.