A duty time question
10-14-2013 | 08:38 PM
#21
Banned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 0
Look up the FAA definitions of flight time, duty time and rest. Duty has nothing directly to do with flight time, although because we are pilots they likely go hand and hand. If you are "on-call" that is by FAA interpretation and definition, duty. You can't drink when you're on call but you can on rest, so how is being on call, rest? Rest means you are eleviated from company responsibility during that period. Duty means you ARE bound to company responsibility, therefore being on call is duty. Perfect example, I fly the plane from OAK to VNY, then drive home. Is the drive home duty or rest? I'm not flying so I guess it's not duty by your understanding. Wrong, that is 100% duty because it is company travel. Legally, there is no such thing is 24/7 on call. How 90% of 135 charter companies get away with it is still a mystery to me. But they do, it is widely known so the FAA must turn a blind eye. But again, being tied to your phone is NOT rest.
10-14-2013 | 08:54 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 880
Likes: 0
From: 737 FO
Look up the FAA definitions of flight time, duty time and rest. Duty has nothing directly to do with flight time, although because we are pilots they likely go hand and hand. If you are "on-call" that is by FAA interpretation and definition, duty. You can't drink when you're on call but you can on rest, so how is being on call, rest? Rest means you are eleviated from company responsibility during that period. Duty means you ARE bound to company responsibility, therefore being on call is duty. Perfect example, I fly the plane from OAK to VNY, then drive home. Is the drive home duty or rest? I'm not flying so I guess it's not duty by your understanding. Wrong, that is 100% duty because it is company travel. Legally, there is no such thing is 24/7 on call. How 90% of 135 charter companies get away with it is still a mystery to me. But they do, it is widely known so the FAA must turn a blind eye. But again, being tied to your phone is NOT rest.
Also if you read back to my previous posts I have never said being "on-call" is rest. In fact, quite the opposite. Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that the certificate holder requires, is considered duty.
I think you and I are on the same page.
10-14-2013 | 09:01 PM
#23
Holiday Inn Silver Elite
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
I have allegedly heard of a fictitious company in fantasy land operating like this. They fly single pilot charters part 135.
1. Call comes in for a trip. Pilot A takes the trip @ 0900
2. Pilot A returns from the trip @ 1200
3. Pilot A remains available to the company to take any trips until 1900. For a total duty time of 10 hours.
4. Pilot A then looks back to when he arrived, 1200 and considers his rest started at 1200 and therefore will accept another flight at 2200.
5. Per regs, rest must be free from availability to the company. My humble opinion is that technically pilot A is only getting 3 hours rest.
I see this as playing games with your duty. Fantasy land airplane company sees it as legal and allegedly has approval from the local fsdo to operate like this. I have asked for this in writing, yet fantasy company says there is nothing on paper. I do not think they are lying or being malicious in any way, but something just doesnt add up.
Whats your take?
1. Call comes in for a trip. Pilot A takes the trip @ 0900
2. Pilot A returns from the trip @ 1200
3. Pilot A remains available to the company to take any trips until 1900. For a total duty time of 10 hours.
4. Pilot A then looks back to when he arrived, 1200 and considers his rest started at 1200 and therefore will accept another flight at 2200.
5. Per regs, rest must be free from availability to the company. My humble opinion is that technically pilot A is only getting 3 hours rest.
I see this as playing games with your duty. Fantasy land airplane company sees it as legal and allegedly has approval from the local fsdo to operate like this. I have asked for this in writing, yet fantasy company says there is nothing on paper. I do not think they are lying or being malicious in any way, but something just doesnt add up.
Whats your take?
I hope you find a better place to work than "Fantasy company," in the near future.
10-14-2013 | 09:06 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 127
Ummm...sounds like we're all on the same page here. I'm pretty sure nobody is arguing differently.
10-15-2013 | 07:05 AM
#25
Banned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 0
I did look up the FAA definitions of duty period and rest, in fact, I posted them in my previous post.
Also if you read back to my previous posts I have never said being "on-call" is rest. In fact, quite the opposite. Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that the certificate holder requires, is considered duty.
I think you and I are on the same page.
Also if you read back to my previous posts I have never said being "on-call" is rest. In fact, quite the opposite. Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that the certificate holder requires, is considered duty.
I think you and I are on the same page.
10-23-2013 | 10:22 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,244
Likes: 0
From: CL-65 captain
I have allegedly heard of a fictitious company in fantasy land operating like this. They fly single pilot charters part 135.
1. Call comes in for a trip. Pilot A takes the trip @ 0900
2. Pilot A returns from the trip @ 1200
3. Pilot A remains available to the company to take any trips until 1900. For a total duty time of 10 hours.
4. Pilot A then looks back to when he arrived, 1200 and considers his rest started at 1200 and therefore will accept another flight at 2200.
5. Per regs, rest must be free from availability to the company. My humble opinion is that technically pilot A is only getting 3 hours rest.
I see this as playing games with your duty. Fantasy land airplane company sees it as legal and allegedly has approval from the local fsdo to operate like this. I have asked for this in writing, yet fantasy company says there is nothing on paper. I do not think they are lying or being malicious in any way, but something just doesnt add up.
Whats your take?
1. Call comes in for a trip. Pilot A takes the trip @ 0900
2. Pilot A returns from the trip @ 1200
3. Pilot A remains available to the company to take any trips until 1900. For a total duty time of 10 hours.
4. Pilot A then looks back to when he arrived, 1200 and considers his rest started at 1200 and therefore will accept another flight at 2200.
5. Per regs, rest must be free from availability to the company. My humble opinion is that technically pilot A is only getting 3 hours rest.
I see this as playing games with your duty. Fantasy land airplane company sees it as legal and allegedly has approval from the local fsdo to operate like this. I have asked for this in writing, yet fantasy company says there is nothing on paper. I do not think they are lying or being malicious in any way, but something just doesnt add up.
Whats your take?
10-30-2013 | 06:57 AM
#27
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: Director of Operations CE-750 Captain
The first thing any POI will look at on a routine inspection is the duty logs and if any flights are dispatched with less than 10 rest time and it is documented in the duty logs that is a violation and I don't think any POI will look the other way and risk his or hers job. If they are falsely entering duty on and off times in the duty logs the operators certificate could be revoked along with the airmans certificate.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
