To Do It? (Am I too old to be a comm. pilot?)
07-27-2010, 03:05 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
I have had, basically, 4 different careers over about 30 years.
Salary History, in order Highest-lowest. Ending (highest) Salary listed:
1. $180+K/yr. Future job??? Charter Flying???.
Years Worked: 16???
2. $7+K/Month. Current job. Charter Flying.
Years Worked: 1.5
3. $70K/year. Last US airline. Charter flying.
Years Worked: 6.5
4. $48K/year. USAF Pilot: End rank, Captain
Years Worked: 6.5
5. $28K/year. Schoolteacher (extra $4K/year due to Master's Degree equivalent).
Years Worked: 1
6. $25K/year. US Regional pilot
Years Worked: 3 months
8. $18K/year. Full-time school teacher.
Years Worked: 1
9. $18K/year. Full-time school employee
Years Worked: 1
10. About $9K-$12K. Various types of educational positions.
Years Worked: 11
As you can see, my top 4 jobs were flying jobs, and 5 out of my top 6 paying jobs were flying jobs. I worked over 10 years of non-flying jobs, making not much over $10K/year in those positions.
Current Flying Salaries:
1. I understand why so many guys are so negative: It is ALL about EXPECTATIONS. Many guys once had, or were anticipating the $300+K/year heavy metal salaries. When you expectations are dashed, it is very, very emotionally and mentally difficult to deal with. Human beings are all about general improvement in their lives, and when it doesn't happen, it sucks!
2. I think if you compare pilot compensation with the general public in the US today, we are actually FURTHER AHEAD of the average citizen, than we have been since 2001. I think that most US worker's situations have declined even worse than the decline for the pilots have been. So, from that point of view, we are better off now than we were 9 years ago (our salaries, and even Job Security :-O!, relative to the general populace).
Your Professional Aviation Outlook:
1. The glass is half-full, and filling up steadily, with the pilot-hiring tsunami that has been gathering steam for about 6 months.
2. The glass been completely shattered into so many pieces, that even with crazy glue, tweezers, and a microscope no one will ever be able to fix it again.
Where are you on the positive-->negative continuum???
cliff
LFW
I have had, basically, 4 different careers over about 30 years.
Salary History, in order Highest-lowest. Ending (highest) Salary listed:
1. $180+K/yr. Future job??? Charter Flying???.
Years Worked: 16???
2. $7+K/Month. Current job. Charter Flying.
Years Worked: 1.5
3. $70K/year. Last US airline. Charter flying.
Years Worked: 6.5
4. $48K/year. USAF Pilot: End rank, Captain
Years Worked: 6.5
5. $28K/year. Schoolteacher (extra $4K/year due to Master's Degree equivalent).
Years Worked: 1
6. $25K/year. US Regional pilot
Years Worked: 3 months
8. $18K/year. Full-time school teacher.
Years Worked: 1
9. $18K/year. Full-time school employee
Years Worked: 1
10. About $9K-$12K. Various types of educational positions.
Years Worked: 11
As you can see, my top 4 jobs were flying jobs, and 5 out of my top 6 paying jobs were flying jobs. I worked over 10 years of non-flying jobs, making not much over $10K/year in those positions.
Current Flying Salaries:
1. I understand why so many guys are so negative: It is ALL about EXPECTATIONS. Many guys once had, or were anticipating the $300+K/year heavy metal salaries. When you expectations are dashed, it is very, very emotionally and mentally difficult to deal with. Human beings are all about general improvement in their lives, and when it doesn't happen, it sucks!
2. I think if you compare pilot compensation with the general public in the US today, we are actually FURTHER AHEAD of the average citizen, than we have been since 2001. I think that most US worker's situations have declined even worse than the decline for the pilots have been. So, from that point of view, we are better off now than we were 9 years ago (our salaries, and even Job Security :-O!, relative to the general populace).
Your Professional Aviation Outlook:
1. The glass is half-full, and filling up steadily, with the pilot-hiring tsunami that has been gathering steam for about 6 months.
2. The glass been completely shattered into so many pieces, that even with crazy glue, tweezers, and a microscope no one will ever be able to fix it again.
Where are you on the positive-->negative continuum???
cliff
LFW
Last edited by atpcliff; 07-27-2010 at 03:44 AM.
07-27-2010, 07:13 AM
#52
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Cliff
Are you living and flying out of a ruff part of Africa right now? If so then your wages do not really count. We all could make much more as pilots if we are willing to throw our personal lives completely out the window.
Truck drivers can make over 100K in Iraq but they make that because no one else wants to do it.
As for myself I expected to earn an income that was worthy of the investment made and to at least be able to live within the United States.
Skyhigh
Truck drivers can make over 100K in Iraq but they make that because no one else wants to do it.
As for myself I expected to earn an income that was worthy of the investment made and to at least be able to live within the United States.
Skyhigh
07-27-2010, 07:17 AM
#53
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Good Side
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
What you say about getting one side of the story out is correct. What you're in Sky's posts missing is the other side.
If you listened to him - there is no good side.
I've just spent the last few days doing some ground school with a guy who works with Cathay Pacific, and if he told you HIS story like you have shared with us above, you'd think that the world is his oyster.
The point being - different person, different story. You are enduring hard times right now and he just got off a 3 week vacation jetting around Brazil. Not everyone will have as much fun as this guy says he is having, and the chances are for a tougher trip than most I would bet, but Sky won't even admit that there are people out there like this guy.
His "Johnny Raincloud" attitude as you have said is just as extreme as if I held up this guy's success as typical and never mentioned the fact that there were pilot's struggling. There are two sides of the story.
USMCFLYR
If you listened to him - there is no good side.
I've just spent the last few days doing some ground school with a guy who works with Cathay Pacific, and if he told you HIS story like you have shared with us above, you'd think that the world is his oyster.
The point being - different person, different story. You are enduring hard times right now and he just got off a 3 week vacation jetting around Brazil. Not everyone will have as much fun as this guy says he is having, and the chances are for a tougher trip than most I would bet, but Sky won't even admit that there are people out there like this guy.
His "Johnny Raincloud" attitude as you have said is just as extreme as if I held up this guy's success as typical and never mentioned the fact that there were pilot's struggling. There are two sides of the story.
USMCFLYR
Skyhigh
07-27-2010, 07:32 AM
#54
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Cathay Pacific
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
What you say about getting one side of the story out is correct. What you're in Sky's posts missing is the other side.
If you listened to him - there is no good side.
I've just spent the last few days doing some ground school with a guy who works with Cathay Pacific, and if he told you HIS story like you have shared with us above, you'd think that the world is his oyster.
The point being - different person, different story. You are enduring hard times right now and he just got off a 3 week vacation jetting around Brazil. Not everyone will have as much fun as this guy says he is having, and the chances are for a tougher trip than most I would bet, but Sky won't even admit that there are people out there like this guy.
His "Johnny Raincloud" attitude as you have said is just as extreme as if I held up this guy's success as typical and never mentioned the fact that there were pilot's struggling. There are two sides of the story.
USMCFLYR
If you listened to him - there is no good side.
I've just spent the last few days doing some ground school with a guy who works with Cathay Pacific, and if he told you HIS story like you have shared with us above, you'd think that the world is his oyster.
The point being - different person, different story. You are enduring hard times right now and he just got off a 3 week vacation jetting around Brazil. Not everyone will have as much fun as this guy says he is having, and the chances are for a tougher trip than most I would bet, but Sky won't even admit that there are people out there like this guy.
His "Johnny Raincloud" attitude as you have said is just as extreme as if I held up this guy's success as typical and never mentioned the fact that there were pilot's struggling. There are two sides of the story.
USMCFLYR
If you are willing to sell off all your friends, family and country you can see the world. I wanted a career to build a stable life upon. Not an open ended life of living out of a suitcase.
Most of my friends would get out if they could.
Skyhigh
07-27-2010, 07:42 AM
#55
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Jayhawk 023
Jayhawk 023,
You are 36 and have a young family to think about. I don't know where you work but I do know your situation. You have to ask yourself if it really will get any better. As your son gets older and wants to do more things with dad are you really willing to sit reserve in a far away city?
Is it worth it? What are your odds? In my case I saw myself as becoming stuck at a regional. A family is a blessing but also comes with complications that can make your chances very slim as an airline pilot.
You are still young enough to make a change. Your family is still flexible and able to accept sacrifice. My advice is to consider using this setback as a time to make a career change. If you wait till the next down turn your family will be established and it will be much harder.
Skyhigh
You are 36 and have a young family to think about. I don't know where you work but I do know your situation. You have to ask yourself if it really will get any better. As your son gets older and wants to do more things with dad are you really willing to sit reserve in a far away city?
Is it worth it? What are your odds? In my case I saw myself as becoming stuck at a regional. A family is a blessing but also comes with complications that can make your chances very slim as an airline pilot.
You are still young enough to make a change. Your family is still flexible and able to accept sacrifice. My advice is to consider using this setback as a time to make a career change. If you wait till the next down turn your family will be established and it will be much harder.
Skyhigh
07-27-2010, 08:20 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
Some guys have had the best family situations, of their whole lives, overseas! But, from reading your posts, I do not think you would, no matter how great the situation was for your family overseas.
Not me, in this job, I might add.
The job I am currently in was the ONLY ONE I could find after I was furloughed, and it will hopefully lead to bigger and better things down the road!
cliff
LFW
Some guys have had the best family situations, of their whole lives, overseas! But, from reading your posts, I do not think you would, no matter how great the situation was for your family overseas.
Not me, in this job, I might add.
The job I am currently in was the ONLY ONE I could find after I was furloughed, and it will hopefully lead to bigger and better things down the road!
cliff
LFW
07-27-2010, 11:56 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,405
Since you are apparently single and without a large amount of debt, you may want to give it a try. Perhaps consider a time frame (40 years old for instance) and reevaluate where you are going and if its working. I spent years working on the maintenance side of the house and finally got in as an fe in my mid 30's. Now I'm flying as an fo for the company I plan on retiring from and could not be in a better spot. Still on 3rd year pay and should gross around 80 this year unless I want to work more.
Luck, timing and friends in the right place really make a difference in this career. Or you could work out of a cubicle for the next 30 years wondering "what if ?"
Luck, timing and friends in the right place really make a difference in this career. Or you could work out of a cubicle for the next 30 years wondering "what if ?"
07-27-2010, 12:33 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: 737 Left
Posts: 1,825
Originally Posted by BushwickBill
Please keep in mind that I am based out of the North SF Bay Area one of the most expensive places to live in the world. It certainly isn't like ATL area in terms of cost of living. I rent a room for 900 a month and its a good deal for the area.
I'm certainly not ****ing money away on silly things. At least not very often. I'm just trying to pain a realistic picture for this guy. Do you own your house? Did you buy it when you were making 6 figures? It isn't really fair to compare a second career guy who got lucky to a CFI turned charter pilot.
I'm certainly not ****ing money away on silly things. At least not very often. I'm just trying to pain a realistic picture for this guy. Do you own your house? Did you buy it when you were making 6 figures? It isn't really fair to compare a second career guy who got lucky to a CFI turned charter pilot.
And I didn't get lucky, I worked VERY hard!
07-28-2010, 06:39 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: BE-20, LR35
Posts: 266
If it's something your passionate about, I say go for it. 31 is definitely not too old by any means to get in. I have a friend who is 26 and just got hire at DELTA, which means he got real lucky getting on with a regional carrier and upgraded fast then apparently blew them away in his interview. If you're willing to network, put in some time someplace not so glamorous to build time, and stay on the lookout for great opportunities...you can definitely make a comfortable living in aviation. International flying is growing exponentially if you are willing to live and work abroad. Domestic flying is making a comeback and economics are projecting significant grown through 2025.
That being said, it's just like any career. I know CPA's who make 35k a year and others who top 200k...its all about work, dedication, and occasionally a bit of luck. Good luck to you, whatever you decide!
That being said, it's just like any career. I know CPA's who make 35k a year and others who top 200k...its all about work, dedication, and occasionally a bit of luck. Good luck to you, whatever you decide!
