Jumping Fire
 

I should pull my copy out and read it again. I am glad you liked it.

Skyhigh

It sounds like you should have gone to Dental or Law school. :D

A lot of things
 

I should have done a lot of things diffrently. :D

SKyhigh

If a guy was to get ahold of a good drop bird, is there a 'leaseback' or some way to have his own bird on a companies contract? Point being; after a career in maintenance, and another one in flight, I find it important to know the bird I'm pushing past the point of good taste. Having my own bird to have and to hold lends confidence, and if I feel like upgrading or fixing, I don't want someone else standing in the way.

Just curious. It works in the bush up north. I wondered if it worked on fire contracts, as well.

Ronin

Ronin,

It is almost impossible to break into the world of federal contracting if you are an unknown entity. Just to get started you'd better know a senator these things are highly political. If you don't have a track record as an operator you are ****ing up a rope. The Smoke Jumpers are using Casa 212's, DO 228's, C-23 Sherpa's, Basler turbine DC-3's and the like what did you have in mind for an airframe? You'll also need a chief pilot, director of maintenance stuff like that. Its not just a matter of buying some old jump bird and kicking jumpets out over a fire. You'll also need to have 500 hours PIC low level time and,100 hours of Pic turbine over 12,500 lbs to get an OAS PIC card.

Sounds like you're a hobby pilot, then? Doesn't sound like you're flying for money.

You talk about those who leave fire for airlines, as though that's a natural progression...after all, who wouldn't want to fly for an airline, right? You can't imagine someone leaving an airline position to go fight fires? I did.

Of course, I had a lot of fire experience before I flew for the airline, so I knew what I was getting into, but I enjoyed the fires more, and I made more money doing it, so why not?

You don't seem to have had much fire experience, yet you've a lot to say about it. You don't seem to have much if any airline experience, but you've a lot to say about that, too. All in all, very little credibility, and a lot of talking.

Hard to build a life out of seasonal flying.
 

Smoke jumping is very migratory and seasonal work. As such it is very hard to impossible to maintain much of a life outside of the job. It does not take 20 years in the business to see that either.

The natural progression for those who wish to have something more than merely an aviation job is to look to the airlines. The airlines offer better schedules and some hope of access to a regular life.

My goal was always to build a life. One that supports the maintenance and development of friends family and solid finances. It is my belief that most are seeking the same. Flying seasonally makes it nearly impossible to have any meaningful relationships or to create a life on the side. It takes stability and momentum to get something going in your personal life. To be uprooted every six months almost insures a single life that accumulates little in regards to what most people consider as being successful.

The average person moves on quickly from smokejumper, bush or fire bomber flying. Those who stay usually spend their winters living alone in small apartments and find it hard to even keep a house plant alive.

Skyhigh

It takes more than one season, that's for sure. It's very possible, in fact essential, to have a "life" outside of the job. Virtually everyone that does the job does have a "life" outside of the job. Why didn't you?

Perhaps you simply never had any experience with the job, which is evident in your writing.

I was fairly convinced from reading your posts that you had no concept of your subject, and this conclusively proves it.

There is very little turnover in fire work; most who do it stay with it, and for good reason. I don't know anyone in the fire business who lives alone in a small apartment. Most are quite happily married with kids. If you're the odd man out who lives alone in a small apartment, unable to keep a house plant alive, what does that say about you?

Your observations, if one were to believe that to be the case, certainly represent an extremely small and limited segment of the industry, and are not typical or a reflection of reality. Is this really your impression from your one season on the job, or are you simply lying and making it all up. Very obviously most of what you recount isn't true. Is there some sliver of truth to what you say, or are you inventing every drop of it?

You wouldn't know about that, as you're not an airline pilot either, are you?

You're wrong, of course. At five hundred dollars an hour, I know individuals flying fire who cleared two hundred thousand this season. They'll have just over three months of time committed to the job.

Put another way, they'll have just under nine months of free time: that's 24 hours a day of free time.

Which airline offers that kind of free time with that kind of wage? You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

Whatever
 

John,

I hope you are happy with it. All I am saying is that most people are searching for a middle class lifestyle, 2.3 kids, retirement and maybe even the ability to coach their kids t-ball team. Very hard to impossible to make that happen with any seasonal job. The airlines suck but at least there is the hope that one can eventually attain some resemblance of a normal life.

It is the same with bush pilots, fishing guides and crop dusters. Most are single or are about to be. Relationships and investments need continuity in order to have the best chance at survival. I was only a smokejumper pilot for one season but worked seasonal jobs for eight years total. They all offered the same life and outcome. Once I made it to a stable regional things got much better.

Not only could you use your own experience but you can tell by the lives of your co-workers. The career seasonal guys I flew with were nothing I envied. They made enough to get by just fine but came home at the end of every season to an empty apartment. I wanted a life. If you are happy with it though then that is great.

Skyhigh

Really? Hard to make happen with a seasonal job? When one has most of the year off, that's a hardship to a family? When one doesn't have to commute every other day, isn't constantly gone and stressed out, that makes it hard to have a "normal" life?

I don't know anyone that's sought out .3 kids, let alone 2.3. I certainly have no desire to coach a t-ball team. I'm glad there are some that do and those who enjoy it, and more power to them. I hate sports.

You stated that the "airlines suck," but you don't fly for an airline, do you?

Then again, you don't fight fire or do other seasonal flying either, do you?

You're not flying for a living at all, are you?

You should know that we aren't "crop dusters" or "firebombers." Nobody in the business uses those terms. We're aerial applicators or agricultural pilots, and air tanker pilots. This isn't something you've done. It's something I've been doing since I was a teen. Again, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Most ag pilots I know (and I know a lot) are happily married, and have been for many years. Many work year-round, others do flying in the summer and maintenance in the winter. Others simply take their off seasons off...one long vacation with more time for family and friends and personal life than any airline position.

I know ag aviators that only work at night, spraying for a few hours each night, sleeping in the morning, with the day and evening free...even in the middle of the busy season.

I took a fire season in one location, lived in a condo by a lake, had an air conditioned base to work from, and spent a total of one night in a hotel the entire season. My son came to stay with me for a few weeks and got paid well for his time. He learned a lot, and even got a ride in the airplane, as well as the air attack platform to watch me working, dropping on fires. He spent time turning wrenches, loading airplanes, and even got to start the engine a few times. Rough life, that. We ate out every night; good food. We went to movies. We had fun.

When I came home at the end of the season it was to a four bedroom house in a quiet neighborhood with a wife that cooked good food, two dogs, two cats, four kids, and a full home schedule. Just like I'd never been gone.

I've done temp work and seasonal work for decades, often in concert with other longer-term work that I was doing, and I have to say you really don't seem to have any concept what it's about. I've done regular turns in Iraq and Afghanistan and other garden spots for years on end, without any damage to home life, and I've worked with a lot of others in the same boat. Frankly, international airline work was far more detrimental and far more stressful than firefighting, or ag work.

I've had my kids in the field with me in the past, as well as my wife. Some have had their girlfriends, wives, or family come out in the field and treat it like a vacation. Life's certainly an adventure, and firefighting and ag work most definitely can be, but what you describe may be a reflection of your own life...but it's got no grounding in reality.