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chrisreedrules 12-08-2013 03:02 PM

What you should of told you mom was, "I'm sure you sucked at teaching when you first started too... But that's okay because by the time your ready for the nursing home I'm sure you'll be great at it".

I kid I kid... But seriously... No one is great at teaching when they first start. Everyone reads from their lesson plans or from the book and bores the crap out of their students at first. But instructing is also a learning process for you too. Not only will it force you to hone your people/communications skills but you will be reinforcing all the fundamentals that you will take with you and use the rest of your career. A lot of the guys I fly with now we're never CFIs and many of them are great pilots... But one thing I've noticed about old pilots is that they are very, very good at is knowing the regs. And you will get good at knowing them too as a CFI. And it will save your butt (and probably certificates too) one day.

As far as the 135 stuff being "entry level" your absolutely delusional. I don't fly 135 but I do have a job that demands a similar experience level. Just yesterday morning I had an attitude indicator failure, gear pump failure, and my emergency gear extension handle broke while trying to get the gear down. All at 3am flying in a valley surrounded by 12,000ft peaks. Not a fun time and not something I would of been equipped to deal with at 250 or 300 hours. There is more to flying than being able to control an airplane and follow a checklist. There are lessons to be learned through experience. Which a low time pilot simply doesn't have.

JamesNoBrakes 12-08-2013 03:54 PM

What I don't get with this whole thing is that these guys want to be air transport pilots working for a commercial operator/carrier. I'm not sure if they realize this, but one of the duties of an ATP pilot is to instruct. When you sit in that left seat, you are expected to teach the guy in the right. Sure, everyone is not a "natural" teacher out of the box, but not wanting to do the CFI route because you "can't teach" means you need to give up the entire ATP and airline pilot gig too. I can understand not doing it for other reasons, but "teaching" goes hand in hand with being a pilot. Very few professional pilot jobs out there have zero "teaching" and most of those are the type that you don't spend a career at (unless you messed up somewhere along the way).

galaxy flyer 12-08-2013 05:49 PM

Well said, James

GF

El Pilot 12-08-2013 07:02 PM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 1535761)
What you should of told you mom was, "I'm sure you sucked at teaching when you first started too... But that's okay because by the time your ready for the nursing home I'm sure you'll be great at it".

I kid I kid... But seriously... No one is great at teaching when they first start. Everyone reads from their lesson plans or from the book and bores the crap out of their students at first. But instructing is also a learning process for you too. Not only will it force you to hone your people/communications skills but you will be reinforcing all the fundamentals that you will take with you and use the rest of your career. A lot of the guys I fly with now we're never CFIs and many of them are great pilots... But one thing I've noticed about old pilots is that they are very, very good at is knowing the regs. And you will get good at knowing them too as a CFI. And it will save your butt (and probably certificates too) one day.

As far as the 135 stuff being "entry level" your absolutely delusional. I don't fly 135 but I do have a job that demands a similar experience level. Just yesterday morning I had an attitude indicator failure, gear pump failure, and my emergency gear extension handle broke while trying to get the gear down. All at 3am flying in a valley surrounded by 12,000ft peaks. Not a fun time and not something I would of been equipped to deal with at 250 or 300 hours. There is more to flying than being able to control an airplane and follow a checklist. There are lessons to be learned through experience. Which a low time pilot simply doesn't have.

My mom knows me best, she knows I'm super "social" to be a teacher in front of eager to learn students. I explained to her it's one on one. She suggest I try to build time some other way like flying cargo, agian I explain I need even more time.

Again maybe you didn't have that experience before you got 1200tt. Either way you are new when they set you loose. I just think flying cargo in a single engine piston shouldn't be so high time requirement. There is VFR friehgt, but those jobs aren't so common.

El Pilot 12-08-2013 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by HeavyDriver (Post 1535428)
Dude...if your frustrated with the industry now...well your not going to like it later. Go become a doctor or lawyer. Better yet and air conditioning repairman will have a higher income potential then what your getting into. It's a who you know industry and if your a guy that is shy and keeps to thy self...recommendations will not be plenty. I did not have to do the CFI route. I worked line service and got a Learjet job with less then 300 hours, but I was a people person. And being a people person also was the reason I was a Widebody captain before I was 30 years old...You learn more from other pilots talking then reading some book...if you want to make it in aviation it will help greatly to get out of your shell and poke your head up out of your laptop, phone or tablet and strike up a conversation with a stranger...They might be your next chief pilot.

Thanks. I'm considering pursuing something IT related.

El Pilot 12-08-2013 07:12 PM


Originally Posted by jsfBoat (Post 1535604)
Flight instructing, banner towing, traffic watch is a way of paying your dues to get to whatever it is you want to do. This industry is frustrating, but you have to either suck it up and march on, or go home and sit on the couch.

BTW, there are plenty of teachers who can't teach. I found the way to do well at flight instructing is to connect with your students on a personal level. Not just the "why do you want to be a pilot" but "what are your interests?" and trying to find a way to correlate their interests into learning.

Look at flight instructing as a way to break out of being shy. For the most part I'm still a quiet person, but even more so before I started instructing. And in a multi-crew cockpit, nothing is more uncomfortable (other than being asked If I've been saved by Jesus Christ) than being with a shy person. Conversation helps pass the "long" flights pass by.

I hate small talk, but I see your point. Networking is important in this field.

I have come to the conclusion that becoming a CFI will be the "Ultimate Test". Instead of trying to runaway from it, which will not improve my confidence, I will have to suck it up and do it.

mtbthis 12-08-2013 07:55 PM


Originally Posted by El Pilot (Post 1535894)
I have come to the conclusion that becoming a CFI will be the "Ultimate Test". Instead of trying to runaway from it, which will not improve my confidence, I will have to suck it up and do it.

When I got my commercial cert. I figured i could go and find a job and fly. Thought I knew it all. Ya right... :rolleyes:

CFIing isn't always easy. There are days when I get frustrated with my students and I'm stressed out to the max.

The majority of the time though (and i still do this) i look out my side window and think to myself "I can't believe I get paid to do this" as i smile to myself.

With that being said, I do see your argument. Why am I teaching and not someone with years of experience? I still only know a fraction of what is out there though. And that is part of being a good pilot and CFI - knowing that you are always learning - though sometimes im pretty sure I know more than some of those airline boys out there...

ClarenceOver 12-08-2013 10:50 PM


Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 1535779)
What I don't get with this whole thing is that these guys want to be air transport pilots working for a commercial operator/carrier. I'm not sure if they realize this, but one of the duties of an ATP pilot is to instruct. When you sit in that left seat, you are expected to teach the guy in the right. Sure, everyone is not a "natural" teacher out of the box, but not wanting to do the CFI route because you "can't teach" means you need to give up the entire ATP and airline pilot gig too. I can understand not doing it for other reasons, but "teaching" goes hand in hand with being a pilot. Very few professional pilot jobs out there have zero "teaching" and most of those are the type that you don't spend a career at (unless you messed up somewhere along the way).

I bet to differ. Just because you dont instruct doesn't mean you wont make a good airline pilot.

HeavyDriver 12-09-2013 03:29 AM


Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 1535779)
but not wanting to do the CFI route because you "can't teach" means you need to give up the entire ATP and airline pilot gig too.

I never had a CFI and I was a Checkairmen on the DC-10 and B-777 for my airline. Teaching in the airplane and the Simulator with students that were low time FE transition/upgrade to very high time pilots. I will say this...if you want to fly multiple crew complex airplanes you need to have a personality and communication skills or training will become a grind and unpleasant experience for all involved. I can remember one pilot we had with no social skills...he didn't make it over the long run and nobody enjoyed being in the cockpit with him.

From what I've experienced in the last decade (and I will be corrected by the 500TT CFI know it all on this and other subjects)...it seems like the 'ol experienced pilots listen to what those low time pilots have to say, but those low time pilot know it all's don't listen to the experienced 'ol pilots...thank you Xbox for bad parenting.

Apokleros 12-09-2013 06:21 AM


Originally Posted by HeavyDriver (Post 1535964)
From what I've experienced in the last decade (and I will be corrected by the 500TT CFI know it all on this and other subjects)...it seems like the 'ol experienced pilots listen to what those low time pilots have to say, but those low time pilot know it all's don't listen to the experienced 'ol pilots...thank you Xbox for bad parenting.

I hope that wasn't a jab at me...because I sure as hell don't know everything at 500 hours compared with someone who has been flying for decades and I'll openly admit that without shame.


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