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-   -   Pilot for free in UT Salt Lake (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/part-91-low-time/99646-pilot-free-ut-salt-lake.html)

JohnBurke 01-26-2017 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by zondaracer (Post 2288594)
To the original poster:

The FAA considers flight time as compensation, so flying for free would be considered working. You will have to at least spend your pro-rata share of expenses for a flight if you are going to log the time.

The issue of pro-rata expense belongs to the private pilot. The original poster is a commercially certificated pilot and regardless of work laws or authorizations in the United States, is not prevented from being compensated as a commercial pilot.

The FAA has long held in legal interpretation that the logging of flight time represents compensation, not the flight time itself. In this case, it's irrelevant.

So far as regards the original poster, whether it's a troll post or sincere, you shall find little support or sympathy in offering free services. To do so lowers the bar for everyone, regardless of whether work is taken away from others or not. It may well be that whatever flying you do for free would not have been done by another pilot, or in other words, it's possible that you're not preventing a working pilot from receiving compensation or taking his job. That does not alter the fact that by offering to fly for free you're denigrating the concept of the paid, or commercial pilot. Those who do so are seen very unfavorably by those whose livelihood is dedicated to the betterment of the industry.

In short, by making the offer, you've become part of the problem. You'd do well to retract it.

kingsnake2 01-26-2017 08:36 AM

The FAA may allow flying for free, but SEVIS/DHS does not. Obviously I don't know what type of visa you are on now, but most (including the M-1 and F-1), prevent this sort of arrangement unless you are acting as an FO in a single pilot operation (ie, providing no value to the company you are serving). Even then the law surrounding it can be tricky.

adebord 01-26-2017 01:57 PM

Using your for-hire commercial privileges in the United States is a visa violation if you do not have the right to work. (m1, f1, most student visas).

Your 'employer' can get hammered as well if they knowingly engage in this relationship.

Javichu 01-26-2017 02:52 PM

It makes me wonder why I keep doing my research for months/years, willing to sacrifice quality of life, getting loans, working overtime, etc etc.....maybe I should just post one of these "pilot for free".

These kind people make me sick.

zondaracer 01-26-2017 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2288672)
The issue of pro-rata expense belongs to the private pilot. The original poster is a commercially certificated pilot and regardless of work laws or authorizations in the United States, is not prevented from being compensated as a commercial pilot.

The FAA has long held in legal interpretation that the logging of flight time represents compensation, not the flight time itself. In this case, it's irrelevant.

I was trying to make the point that working for free is still working and would be a violation of his student visa. He can go rent a plane or even borrow a plane for a recreational flight while paying his share of the operational expenses and exercise private pilot privileges. Once he exercises commercial pilot privileges, then the pilot would need an appropriate corresponding visa.

JohnBurke 01-28-2017 09:45 PM


Originally Posted by zondaracer (Post 2288857)
I was trying to make the point that working for free is still working and would be a violation of his student visa. He can go rent a plane or even borrow a plane for a recreational flight while paying his share of the operational expenses and exercise private pilot privileges. Once he exercises commercial pilot privileges, then the pilot would need an appropriate corresponding visa.

You didn't make that point. You attempted to do so by invoking FAA regulation, which is irrelevant, and you were wrong about the regulation.

The issue of a visa is another matter entirely.

TiredSoul 01-28-2017 10:31 PM

M-1 allows practical training by the way...


Can I work on M-1 visa?

No, you may not work on M-1 visa. However, you may apply for practical training after you complete your studies. If approved, you will be allowed to have one month of practical training for every four months of study you have completed. You will be limited to six months total practical training time.

http://faq.visapro.com/M1-Visa-FAQ3.asp
Since the M-1 category was never (primarily) intended for flight training but kinda sorta made to work after 9-11 it makes for some interesting (wrong) interpretations.

miker1 01-29-2017 09:35 AM

The OP is never gonna respond to this hand grenade of a thread

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

FlyingFox 01-29-2017 11:23 AM

Haha not true, I'm monitoring in case anybody says anything useful.

F-1 visa regulations does prohibit employment during the time of study, I am well aware of the regulations.

https://www.uscis.gov/working-united...and-employment

My goal is to just utilize at least my flight instructor certificate or fly once a month to keep my currency, I am not getting paid which isn't illegal. I believe this is no different than giving a friend a flight review and you don't charge him.

DarkSideMoon 01-29-2017 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by FlyingFox (Post 2290680)
Haha not true, I'm monitoring in case anybody says anything useful.

F-1 visa regulations does prohibit employment during the time of study, I am well aware of the regulations.

https://www.uscis.gov/working-united...and-employment

My goal is to just utilize at least my flight instructor certificate or fly once a month to keep my currency, I am not getting paid which isn't illegal. I believe this is no different than giving a friend a flight review and you don't charge him.

except you don't have a friend trying to get a flight review. You're sniping business from other instructors.


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