Wink

You seem to be under the impression that PBS will magically give you 32 hour 4 day trips and you'll be off 20 days a month. Although you may hear of this happening at other airlines, that is not universally the result. The efficiency it gains is for management, by being able to schedule the same number of pilots to complete a larger flight schedule by eliminating conflicts as well as creating trips that benefit the company the most. It's a productivity tool that will reduce staffing, and most likely premium pay. PBS can easily create 11 day off schedules for majority of the staff, and voting it in should not be a decision taken lightly.

The trip construction and productivity we need to have better schedules resides in a combination of our flight schedule given to us by AA and the work rules we have attached to PBS. I rode on the jumpseat on mainline recently and the FO (ex-PDT) said the min day here used to be 5:15 credit. At 5:15 credit a day, a junior lineholder would get 14 days off. Additionally, there isnt a lot of oppurtunity to block a lot doing AVP turns as opposed to other airlines with 2-3 hour stage lengths. These shorter routes make it difficult to reach a minimum line value of 75 in less at days away from home.

I have no clue if we'll get longer flights, but I'm optimistic the Negotiating Committe will find some way to improve qol via trip rigs, duty rigs, min day, or some other mechanism. It's in the company's interest to improve them as well, as that really is the only place we fail as an organization and it continues to bring down morale.

Lvlng4Spd

PBS would be a nightmare for the flying we do. RIGS is what we really need. As long as I am still here PBS is a big NO vote.

Pedro4President

I'm still curious how PDT still thinks their flow is so fast. Envoy's flow SLOWS DOWN to match PDT's flow. Envoy flowed more than 13 percent of its pilot group this past year. PDT flowed under 9 percent. (If someone has more accurate pilot numbers and flow numbers feel free to correct.).

How does PDT calculate flow? Do you use attrition in your calculations? Growth has significant implications on flow. How generous are you with your forecast? How many bypass the flow? Thanks

Theaveragejoker

Slow. Clap.

Newstick189

I calculated my own flow time by combining how many numbers I climbed the seniority list with how many pilots are currently marked "inactive" on our seniority list who are in the process of the flow.

I have been here 8 months and have moved up a total of 80 numbers. Therefore, we lose roughly 5 pilots per month to attrition, and 5 pilots per month to the flow. Based on who is the most junior flow-ee, I am a little more than 4.5 years from flowing based on the 10 pilots per month number.

PDT's flow is easier to calculate than Envoy's because management can choke their flow, which they have been. Also, some people calculate the flow based on year of hire which totally skews the numbers. All of the regionals are extremely heavy on the junior side of the list. I think Envoy has 700 pilots in 2017 alone.

DoNoHarm

Do you think that the outside attrition will be the same rate of people senior to you as you move up the list?

With PDT struggling to keep up with attrition (the number of active pilots has actually decreased recently), while trying to grow, I would not put too much faith in the flow. PDT is not a stable airline right now in terms of hiring, training, and growth.

If someone applies today, gets an interview, and gets hired, when would they complete training? 9-12 months? In that amount of time, how many pilots would be lost to flow and attrition?

MKUltra

I wouldn't say we are unstable, but we are poised to lose a lot of key people here at PDT during the next year. Instructors, LCAs, newly trained captains, etc. We have plenty of people in the training que to continue to grow. The fleet is expected to be 56 at the end of the year.

Most important will be our qol and compensation negotiations going on right now. The only way attrition will be held in check and have more people stick around for their flow will be for massive improvements to our qol.

I know many people that are highly motivated now to get to the next career step. No reason to wait for the flow. Get those applications done!

AboveAndBeyond

Honest questions...

Do you think that you can get people through training right now faster than you are losing them? Can you get your current Dash pilots retrained on the 145 at the same time? And can you do all of this while continuing to flow your instructors during the same time?

Newstick189

I'm not sure where you got the information that PDT is struggling to keep up with attrition. We may have a training backlog right now, but we are actively making changes to improve that. We hire classes of 22 regularly with exception to the last two months. We have a lot of Dash transitions that also need to be trained which explains this.

If we lose 10 pilots per month and are hiring 22, that would be a net growth, simply put. I was hired in May and I have moved up 80 number so in simple math you are moving up the seniority list 10 per month with an additional 20 pilots being placed behind you. I consider this a good thing.

That being said, I don't place any emphasis on the flow. For my personal interests it's creating a steady vertical movement on the seniority list for me. I came here for PIC time so I could move onto another job within 3 years. People do want to know how long the flow is, and I'd say its under 6 years for new hires at the 10 pilots (5 flow/5 attrition) per month number.

I feel strongly we have plenty of experienced new hires that can step up to the plate for those who are leaving. Half of our new hires have more 145 time than the guys currently teaching do.

I think attrition is a good thing because it creates movement for career progression. If people leave, retire, or flow its a great thing for new hires.

That being said, I'm really hoping for our negotiating committee to hit a home run. QOL improvements will be instrumental in attracting quality candidates to help keeping this ship running in the right direction.

I don't see why not. It's not like we don't have experienced people at this airline to take those instructor slots. Half of our new hires are ExpressJet guys with thousands of hours in the 145 and some with instructing backgrounds. If anything we will get better for that.

We added simulator capacity with PHX, reduced the amount of new hires onboarded temporarily, and we are in the process of bringing an additional simulator to CLT. It may not be set in stone yet but I can certainly see the stability coming shortly in that regards.

MKUltra

yes.. the training department will shortly be able to train 50 pilots a month. All PHL displaced pilots are currently in training and almost done, SBY pilots have started with a mix of ROA pilots. We have a very good training department with very very good instructors now. We have 2 full time Sims, clt and PHX, along with dfw part time. Soon will be ATL and another CLT sim. I expect the back log in training to be minimal for the summer.

More instructors are constantly being trained to keep up.

These are interesting times and we are not the only company facing these dilemmas. The question is how long before mainline feels the expense and realises they are wasting a ton of money and its cheaper to bring everything back in house.