Don’t Come To PDT
 

Interviewed in January. I still have not started sims. I won’t be on the line till mid to late November (hopefully!!!). Upgrade is realistically 3 years total because you don’t fly your first year, you sit on min pay at home the whole time. Make less money your second year than you do the first... wish I would have went somewhere else...

What’s keeping you from leaving then?

Prob already spent the bonus money and can’t pay it back😂

I think I’ll be going to sims soon hopefully. I’m saying if I could go back to January I wouldn’t have interviewed here. At most other airlines I would have been flying for 4-6 months by now, accruing flight time. Prolly better pay and more days off as well..

You have to when your only making minimums for 11 months...

Don't fall prey to the 'sunk cost fallacy'. That past is written in stone, but from the present point forward, the best course of action is the best course of action, regardless of what you've invested to get to this point.

So, from here forward, are you better off staying with Piedmont, or going somewhere else?

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't leave, but don't let sunk cost taint your decision.

FWIW, it took three months to get from the start of my first sim session to completion of OE and (finally) a line pilot. That was all training delays. My sim partner and I passed every lesson and ride on the first try, and completed OE at the minimum required hours.

So, even though you've been on the Piedmont payroll for half a year, your quickest route to being a line pilot is probably still not Piedmont. Pathetic, isn't it?

Your interview date doesn’t mean a whole lot... back in Jan PDT had folks waiting 3-5 months to start indoc after interviewing with the company.

Things are far from perfect at PDT, but laying out a vague timeline to imply that new hires will be sitting around for 11 months as a paid employee before they even start sims and won’t see a plane for over a year after indoc is a bit disingenuous.

Upgrade eligibility for new hires is forecast to be 27-30 months using 9-12 months from indoc to OE completion and averaging 55hrs a month until 1000hrs with the company. Actual upgrade times are quicker or slower in some cases depending on background and amount of flight time at PDT.

As far as not interviewing back in January... it wasn’t a secret that there were training delays and folks were taking 4-5 months to get from Indic to ground school back then. Sorry you didn’t do your research on the company beforehand, but I doubt you’d have found another company giving you 30 days off for several months with pay and your probation clock running as a new hire.

If you’re miserable at PDT, no one would fault you for leaving. Definitely recommend finishing OE and completing your probation period first so it doesn’t look like you couldn’t hack it/ resigned in leu of termination. If you decide to stay, make sure to vote no on any TAs that you don’t find acceptable.

I don't fault people for making the decisions they do. Remember the recruiting department is responsible for getting people in the door. They know the buzz words to convince people to come here.

Remember... we have immediate upgrade.. 2.5 year to 3 years if your a zero time guy or gal..

No longer we have the quickest flow..

We have the lowest pay of the regionals now..

We have the worst, least inefficient schedules that credit the the lowest in the industry.

You will give 4 days of your life to make 16 hours credit... for first officers that is less than 640 dollars a trip. For captains that is approximately 1000 dollars a trip.

You will work 20 days a month and get 75 hours credit a month.

That is 3000 dollars a month. As an fo.. after deductions that's about 2000 dollars a month. Yes there are bonuses and bonuses can be taken away at any time... ask people here at year 3 at min fo pay trying to upgrade.. they will make approximately 30k the year they upgrade as there is no more bonus to help them supplement min pay.

I'm not trying to be negative about this company but just honest.

As little as 5 years ago people survived just fine without the bonuses and in even lower hourly rates. BTW I think Trans States or GOJet will buy out your contract if you want to go.

Sitting at home getting paid; not ideal for advancing your aviation credentials but what an opportunity! I hope you’ve been making money on the side and using your AA travel benefits to the max.
Having said this I do understand your frustration.

This isn't 5 years ago.. and it is unacceptable that anyone should be wasting the prime years of their life in this pilot market and economy.

Then he should let GoJet buy out his contract and move on instead of complaining on Internet forums about problems that are all ready well talked about.

I was told by PDT (or maybe envoy..can't remember..) that leaving after starting systems would count as a 121 failure on your record. I was hired in May and left in August while I had the chance. Its been night and day better since...but that's only because of my specific situation (no kids, no restrictions on where to live, young etc etc). Piedmont has a great pilot group so I hope those that do stay and stick it out fight for what they deserve. I know a particular captain JG who is running for CA Rep in PHL, and I really think its time for that pilot group to get involved in some sort of union reform and get some real people with the right idea at the table.

The only Rep to vote against even bothering to release the TA to the pilot group because it was concessionarry in nature was the current PHL CA Rep. Unfortunately for the pilot group, he’s leaving soon.

Yup.. bw is the man.. he was fighting an uphill battle...

Smartest thing said by you yet. +1 for you

Are you talking about the guy whose FB profile picture is a cartoon character licking his own nipple? The guy who regularly walks around PHL talking to passengers with a lip packed fat with tobacco? Yeah, no confidence in that dude just because of one vote. Just speaks to the value of a flow for many at this place

Ahhhh, guys did it in the passed. Let's accept it today then! Go kick rocks dude. Seriously. I started at this exact company making $27 an hour. We were the lowest paid regional then, and guess what? I'll say it again, nothing changes. "Same as it ever was".

You flown the line yet?

I have also thought about leaving for another regional with a DEC program, LCC, or ACMI. The thing holding me back is my number 1 and 2 choices are known for hiring captains and check airmen/instructors. I don't like the idea of starting over and losing the flow (just in case I need it) and seniority. At least PDT has constant movement and multiple opportunities to become an instructor or do something else in training. This isn't as easy at some of the other regionals.

I plan on leaving for a DEC program, OMNI, Spirit, etc soon.

No sense in living like this. Piedmont serves a purpose but it’s not a long term solution anymore. Honestly I don’t have a lot of faith of this place even existing long enough for my flow date to come up. It’s looking like 7 more years for me as it is.

Management here thinks we’re spoiled and entitled, but the truth of it is, the “we have the flow” card is becoming less and less of a draw. Others in the industry are spending money and time to help make the QOL better. We would be doing ourselves a disservice by not trying to put ourselves in the best possible career possible.

Kicking rocks sounds like it would hurt my toes.

It would also make a philosophical point: :D

“After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley’s ingenious sophistry to prove the non-existence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it, ‘I refute it thus.'”

(Boswell’s Life of Samuel Johnson)

So are the both the company and the union going back to the table to try and better this place? Does anyone know what’s going on? Always seems like things are super secretive and hush-hush and all we have to go on are the rumors we hear on the line.

The Union sent an email about a week or two ago, the Company and Union met on the 25-26th to discuss the failed TA and other issues.

As far as the “secretive” part, that’s probably something to blame the company for. From what I understand non-disclosure agreements lets them play their 4d chess they love so much.

Welcome to the world or airline negotiations. Not sure who’s more to blame ALPA or the company. However it’s mostly the same industry wide.

At PDT Union leadership and management are closely aligned...It was pretty bad during the TA roadshows that line pilots weren’t sure if they were getting the sales pitch from folks who negotiated on behalf of the union or behalf of the company and had to stop the individual talking to ask for clarification.

Get involved, at minimum if you are PHL based, vote for your upcoming reps. We should all push for change.

Well for what’s it worth, it was the same way at Eaglevoy in 2011 and 2014. Just one of the reasons I’ve never been thrilled with ALPA

I do not agree with that. I feel like the Union was simply being informative about the proposed changes and weren't trying sell anything.

I don’t think anyone from the Union is on the take, but this management is extremely hostile. We are stuck in the AA WO whipsaw and everything you see is a byproduct of that.

I thought that too, then I went to a road show. They were some (not all, but some) very actively whitewashing the TA. They were dismissing concerns, real concerns. "Well the intent of that is..." "Well, technically that could happen, but the company won't do that because staffing levels will improve."

Honestly, I was incredibly disappointed that they were the ones representing the pilot group.

They shouldn't have been there dismissing concerns, they should have been giving us the solutions that they developed because they saw those same weaknesses and took steps to mitigate them.

If you had interspersed management in to the panel, you wouldn't have been able to tell which ones were the union and which ones were the company trying to defend and sell the TA.

Need to clean the slate within the Union. Can’t get rid of MK but we can change things on our side of the table.

BL for MEC Chair

Exactly how we ended up with our current contract

Have we seen any actual significant change with him involved? Lots of “looking into it” but still 11 days off, less commutable lines, and he supported the TA. Sorry I don’t agree.

We cannot vote anything with ambiguity into our contract. It has to be crystal clear.

Yes we have. Statistically the movement towards a 45 minute report time created many more opportunities for line development. Also, he was able to finally get access to the scheduling software which allows him to run scheduling scenarios which are hopefully going to lead to much better things going forward. Did you not see the newsletter outlining all the new schedule types for the October bid? That was super awesome for once.

Do not confuse critical staffing levels with lack of effort on his part. If there’s anyone in the Union that deserves praise, it’s BL.

Why wouldn’t he support the TA, he’s part of the Union and the negotiated terms greatly expanded language determining the Scheduling Committees role in schedule building. Why would he openly be a no vote?

“Hopefully going to lead” We are all tired of “hopefully”. October was the same crap as the rest of the year. The 45 minute reports benefits the company just as much. When the top 30% (which is still a low number) can’t hold more than 11 days off in September and October, which are usually the slowest air travel months of the year, we haven’t made tangible progress.

He is absolutely trying to make change and he is one of the few in the Union I can say are in the position they should be in.

Hey let's see those "statistics". Or is this hyperbole?

To answer your question, because IT SUCKED

Hyperbole.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that spending less time doing BS duty and more time doing flying duty leads to more efficient schedules though.

The company wanted the 1 hour show to help their precious on time statistics, we as a pilot group have done everything to hurt that after the 45 minute show rule - hence the emails from both the company and union.

I know it’s a shocker, but some things can benefit both parties. BL is doing the right things for the pilot group despite an extremely uphill battle. If you guys really feel different you should volunteer, because it’s not as easy of work as you could imagine from your armchair.

This will never sit right for me. I pay my union dues. Everyone here does. You don't know who I am or if I volunteer, just as much as I don't know if you are the chairmen of the MEC. You could be for all I know.

That in no way effects my right to express my opinion on the union and what they are doing. What are you doing when you volunteer time to the union? Does representing pilots ring a bell? How are we to be represented if we aren't allowed to express our opinion? Your right to explain how you feel about the way things are going is in no way linked to your volunteer record. End of story.

Maybe the union only feels it represents those who do volunteer? And it attracts a certain kind of person? And maybe that echo chamber is why the union deemed it appropriate to put forth a vote on a concessionary contract that the pilot group replied to with a resounding "NO". Just spitballing here.

But maybe I'm on to something. The union is representative of the pilot group as a whole. If people truly believe that if you don't volunteer you don't have a say? Then man, are we in trouble.