Reserve time and rules for new hire FO
 

I am considering PDT and wanted to see if I could get some feedback on current Reserve time for new hire FO's and the prospect of new hire basing in CLT?

Living at Domicile is my priority so reserve time and rules are important to me. Can someone please provide a brief summary of current reserve times, possibly at CLT, and the reserve rules?

Thanks!

Stop there, about-face, run away.

Hey man, glad you're here asking questions. Take some time and read what pilots have to say about this place. It is god awful.

Worst pay, worst schedules, worst quality of life. The flow is 8-10 years, I could care less what some recruiter is pulling out of their... hat.

We are hemorrhaging FOs for a reason: There are many, many other places out there that can provide you with a livable salary, good schedule, and won't treat you like a moldy dog turd.


I assume you want to work where you live so you can spend more time at home by not commuting. PDT will not allow you to be home as much as a high quality west coast regional with a six hour commute in the day before. I'm not pulling your chain. You would get more days off going that route.

Agreed. Do not come here whatever you do. There are sooo many other choices. Training, schedules, pay, and management all suck. Just go somewhere else. Don’t consider this place please.

Currently reserve is less than a month because Piedmont is so short on FOs it stopped Captain Upgrades... no way to tell what reserve will look like 12 months from your Indoc class date (it takes 10-12 months to complete OE for new hires).

Reserve rules? Not a whole lot- they own you for 16? hours a day. 90 minute call out.

If your an FO go elsewhere. If you live in CLT look at PSA maybe or anyone that has an easy one leg commute.

Odds are you will get philly out of training and be stuck waiting to get clt for quite a while. In order for you to get clt people will have to leave/upgrade or growth will have to happen and you’ll have about 50 people in line ahead of you. Reserve is short. I was on reserve for several months but I think that’s longer than average. The fact we attracted 6 new hires last month should tell you something when envoy/psa (who’s pilots complain about contract, pay, and qol)both seem to be filling classes. Good luck in your search but I wouldn’t recommend PDT until a laundry list of items are addressed.

Aaaand... he gone! 😂

Can't predict the future, but there are a couple of things to keep in mind.

It's the June/July 2018 new hires that are hitting the line now, in March of 2019.

There are something like 125 first officers in training. If we don't get additional airplanes, we'll be very healthily staffed by mid/late 2019, which means a larger reserve pool, and more time spent on reserves before holding a line.

Assuming things stay the same, anyone hired today is stuck behind a relatively large group of brand new FOs. What's true today for reserve FOs (hired in Summer 2018), is very likely to not be true when today's new hires hit the line.

Unless things change (we see more airplanes and growth, again), anyone hired today has a real possibility of being stuck at very low seniority for quite some time. They'll be at the worst place you can be, the tail-end of a big hiring wave, at an airline that's no longer growing.

It's worse than what you thought it was eh?

Not necessarily. I was expecting it to be pretty bad. My hands were tied since I needed a DEC spot. I would have never come here as a FO.

One week in INDOC. 10 week wait. Three weeks in Ground Systems. 6 weeks to sims.

$2982 per month gross is what you can count on while in the training department twilight zone of despair. The first four weeks off are cool. Then it gets old... very old...

Due to the number of LCAs FOs have been waiting around five weeks after getting the rating for the first OE trips recently.

Looks like it will be every bit of 10 months from start to the line. One must financially plan accordingly if you take this route.

For your own sakes, stop putting out identifying information about yourself on here.

Anyone who says “we’ll be staffed in X months” hasn’t been around here very long

If we stay at the current number of airframes, eventually the training department will catch up, I would think.

Except attrition is really increasing and new hires are decreasing.

New hires decreasing should really help them get the lesser numbers through...

Instructors flying the line won’t help. So it’s probably a wash even with less new hires.

If I had a dollar

Oh man... you haven't been here a while... I've been hearing that we're almost fully staffed since day 1 on the dash...

We are currently running less than 8 pilots per aircraft... we are no where near fully staffed.... and yet we still have people who work for just prm or 2x....

Back to my sh!tty hotel.

The worst kind of people. On par with scabs imho

The training department has been “almost caught up” since the jet came to Piedmont... they’ve been intentionally understaffed because management doesn’t like releasing pilots from the line (and risking canceling flights) unless they absolutely have to, and management tries to limit personnel cost and the number of people who get paid the extra hours of mmg as instructors... theres been virtually zero headway in getting caught up over the years.

Of those 125 FOs, half or more will leave right around the time they finish flying their first year on the line (aka the 24 month mark when they’ve got 700-1000hrs on the jet and their new hire training bonus repayment goes to zero). The company has been having an increasingly diffult time finding pilots since the most recent TA was announced and subsequently got voted down. Currently they struggle to fill single digit class sizes while experiencing double digit losses. The company has been shrinking the last several months and unless things change soon flow will be dropping back down to 5/month, adding years to a pilots flow timeline.

Without enough New Hires coming in and getting through training to let FOs upgrade to Captain to replace flows and have a surplus to leave the line to become instructors to clear the backlog of FOs in training there is no danger of Piedmont arriving at healthy staffing levels.

It’s going to be a rough ride for a while.

Remember when we all thought we were gonna get to 7 flows a month?

I 'member.

We all thought we would be at 4 flows per month in 2015.... it wasn't until the fo new pay rates, 39 bucks, did people start to fill classes again...

his ego is too big to admit it.

dont waste your time.

He didn’t really have any problems with the DEC route, so wouldn’t have expected much of a change to his online persona...

But triple is ok..?? I never understood this line of thinking.

I concur, Doctor.

Pepperidge farm remembers...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Piedmont may be at 4 flows per month in 2020 too of things remain the same.

I'll lay out my thinking.

We've never had anything greater than triple offered (in my time here, at least. Have never heard of quadruple being advertised). That is the bar. Staffing hasn't changed, yet people are working for less than the standard. They're hurting themselves and the rest of us.

That's not to say I won't entertain the idea that working any overtime helps the company and puts a bandaid on an issue that they created and is their problem. There is much truth to that. I don't work on days off. But I will say, if you have to work extra, why are you doing it for cheap? There is zero logic to that.

if one is in need of money and the company isn’t willing to give triple, but only double why does that make somebody a scab. money is money and at the end of the day this particular pilot needs it. I understand that things need to change but not all of us have the luxury of holding out for triple.

The company isn't willing to give triple because guys are willing to fly for double. Get it? Those flights need to get covered. Think they'll cancel it rather than offer it for triple?

You are literally describing jumping on double before another pilot can because you need the money. That is undercutting, which coincidentally is exactly what I'm arguing here. Triple would, again, be readily available if guys like you didn't start getting hired here in the past year. You clearly chose the one marshmallow now. Congrats on that double preems I guess.

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating for any pilot to do anything. Just laying out how it works

Been here for five years so not sure what you are referring too. My family dynamic changed which is why I need the money.

If you held out you would get triple but whatever, enjoy the $300/$600 smaller payday

ohhhh i’m suppose to wait til the last possible second which point the said trip is gone. you obviously don’t need the money so you can afford to gamble. no one brings up the fact that the instructors get asked to work triple and they get paid 100 hours a month. as a captain i havnt been asked to do anything for triple in months.

You're missing the part where everyone has to be smart for it to work. But we're not, and they win. Not calling you out personally

I have had good success putting in the request for a trip offered as double with the stipulation I will do said trip only for triple. And if not, then no thank you. And I don’t wait till the last minute. Sometimes I’ll do it when the trip is straight time. Still get triple. Request the trip ASAP but say triple only. Then they have the opportunity to cover something without a reserve being burned. Win win

Probably 95%. It’s like buying a car. They have to believe you’ll walk

Remember it’s your services they need. Not the other way

Pilot’s dilemma
 

If everyone refused to take double it would go to triple. However, there is no guarantee no one will take the trip for double so you can’t hold out for triple. Game theory and group dynamics anyone?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

I say we call our version the pilot dilemma.

This one isn’t as directly related but more fun for those who don’t want to read.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CemLiSI5ox8

still missing the point where i have the time and means to work. people ***** about the schedules pay wise they do suck, but they are ten times better than when i started. let’s not forget the dash days where it was constant 4 days on 2 days off with 4 hour sits between legs. I apologize that when i see three days off i pick up a reserve day or what ever they will give me. i don’t live in base so i don’t have the time to play games with scheduling, and that is what they are, to figure out what i’m going to get paid. Truth is i look at my hours at the end of the month. I need 100. If i’m an ass hole that is trying to take care of my family, well i have no words for you

Not one should ever fault you for looking out for your family.

Point is, the more people that pick up double, even triple premium, the less incentivized the company is to make any changes. Not saying your decision to pick up is bad, just laying out the dynamic.