I still don't understand. You can't get a VA disability rating until you are "out" of the military or getting a medical discharge (which would imply its not fraudulent). So until he is processed for discharge I don't think the VA will even look at him. Once you have a end of service date then you can apply.
https://www.benefits.va.gov/predischarge/


I know there is a C17 pilot flying in the Air Force with no legs and a few others that are still on active duty flying with missing limbs. So it is possible (not likely with one eye as you point out).

What I am having trouble with is the statement that the guy got a 80% rating fraudulently and was kicked out of the military FOR IT. They don't tend to rate you until you are out or on your way out. I could understand getting kicked out of the military and THEN getting an 80% rating fraudulently (which does happen sadly). But not the other way around. Your statement implies that he was kicked out FOR his 80% rating. And that's just not the way it works.

You generally can't get a disability rating until you are scheduled for end of service commitment. There must have been some other reason for his discharge from the military.

Not saying the guy isn't a duchenozzel just saying the way you are explaining it doesn't make sense to me.

Generally, you cannot get a VA rating before discharge/retirement.

But it would be possible to leave AD, get a rating, and then rejoin AD, either on guard/reserve orders for a defined period, or an indefinite recall if needed.

Such a person would forfeit all VA disability pay while on AD.

So it would be possible to be on AD, with a disability rating (payments forfeit). Hypothetically if a fraud investigation occurred during that time period, you could get booted off AD. Going on AD with an 80% rating might plausibly cause someone to look into that...

Or he might have gotten kicked out of guard/reserve. You can have a rating and participate in guard/reserve (I do). You forfeit VA pay when on duty.

One can get a VA disability REFRADing from active duty transitioning into the Reserves. One can get a disability via a LOD following a deployment. One can also get a disability while being injured on AT/ADT as a Reservist. In this particular individual's case he REFRAD'd from AGR transitioned to TPU status and somehow managed to pick up this rating while going through the process (don't ask me how). An 80% disability implies some serious physical issues and having somebody on flight status with a valid upslip and no unusual waivers raises an eyebrow. It got noticed by the green tabbers and thankfully some justice eaked-out. Your example of aviators flying sans limbs are not typical and I'm sure these aviators had to go through some exhaustive process to get that waiver written.

Lastly, stop implying that I'm BS-ing you. I was involved in the administrative action(s) with this particular individual.

The only way to get a rating is through military separation; either through ETS, MEB/PEB, or retirement. Your guy must have REFRADed from AGR and went through the separation (ETS) physical and then joined a guard/reserve unit after separation (legal and easy to do). That would have allowed him to receive his VA physical and eventual VA rating. Self-reporting to the VA and submitting a form is the only way to stop the disability pay if rejoining the military. Collecting his VA disability pay (or any VA benefit for that matter) while back in the military is fraud, PERIOD.
Making a statement about collecting 80% disability and still flying without waivers "raises eyebrows" only tells of a lack of understanding of the VA or VA disability ratings in general.
I know of several pilots flying for the majors who have greater than 50% disability ratings. What is not realized is that the rating is a combined percentage of multiple injuries/disabilities. Easiest way to explain is give an example.

Let's look at LTC John Doe after 20 years AFS:

ACL tear/knee surgery (limited range of motion)=10%
Torn rotator cuff/surgery(limited range of motion)=10%
IBS (Iraq deployment; continued irritated stomach, diarrhea=30%
L5-S1 degeneration/bulging disc (hard landing, PL)=10%
Sciatica (left leg)=10%
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (surgery)=0% (started flying a desk at MAJ:))
Tinitis (intermittent/occasional, Rt Ear, pistol range/flight line)=10%

This adds up to 80% but the combined VA ratings gives it 59% rounded up to a 60% disability. All of these injuries were due to his military service.

Can he still fly? Receive an FAA Class 1? Absolutely!

What is misunderstood is the individual ratings are added to a Combined Disability rating. A 10% disability is actually a 90% ABILITY. He is 90 ABLE or can do 90% of what someone without an injury can do. If LTC had not blown out his knee during his annual physical fitness test, he would be 100% able. But since he was injured during his time in service, on duty, he is compensated for that 10% ability lost.

When someone serves in the military for 20+ years, they are going to have multiple issues; hence the combined ratings. It doesn't mean they can't hold a meaningful job, fly, or have a 2nd career after their military service.

I have issues with scammers posing as disabled vets or non-disabled people parking in handicapped spots just as everyone else does. I don't have issues with my taxes compensating veterans for injuries incurred while serving in the military so other can pursue a life of self-service.

Rant over......fire away!

The VA is actually pretty good about catching it these days. It may take a while, and the will want the money back if you wait for them to figure it out.

Extended AD, yes (>30 days?).

Guard/reserve (including drills, annual training, or short term orders), you can still collect from the VA, you just get a pro-rated reduction in benefits for every drill or day on orders.

As long as you have reported to the FAA med your condition I don’t have a problem. However, if you are pulling a fast one then you should face the 5 years in prison also.

Maybe they will crack the case of the pilots using MIL leave for non MIL Leave duties?

All that Honor and Discipline that other mere mortals can’t fathom....

They? Who's they?

Employers can "crack" down if desired. They are free to contact the member's CO to verify any military leave. For some reason that almost never happens. I've been either CO or XO for many years, I would know. If one of my members was caught taking mil leave while not actually performing military duty I would terminate their career at the very least, kick them out if I could.

Instead, some employers seem to prefer stupid games and harassment in violation of federal law. Seems to me they are more interested in "cracking down" on the performance of legitimate military duty than catching the 1%.


On average, most who have served take that seriously. Some who haven't served can't comprehend it, to them it's just a sarcastic joke.

So you admit that there is abuse of the mil leave system? (1% by your estimation) yet you defend them?

How is it harassment if the employer has a right to verify orders? In fact I would say it is a duty to the corporation to assure these are legitimate uses of MIL leave. You are upset and want to wrap yourself in the flag and USERRA, yet it is proven in these indictments that fraud is taking place.

So while you may be honorable your fellow flag/userra waivers who scoff at being questioned about their actions should be the ones ones you are angry with.

Obviously your skin is a bit thin so the humor was lost on you. Maybe a lighten up Francis is in order for you?

The "1%" is a figure of speech, referring to a very small fraction of bad apples which always seems to exist as part of the human condition.

I have heard anecdotally of folks abusing mil leave but have no firsthand experience. Since I've been around a long time I suspect that means it's very rare.

The law is very specific. I said the employers SHOULD verify mil duty in accordance with the law. That would essentially eliminate any abuse at all if every instance of mil leave was routinely verified. In most cases the ONLY legally acceptable means to do that is to contact the CO (believe me, he wants to know if people are claiming mil leavbe when not on duty). In some cases of long-duration orders, the employer may ask for a copy of the orders. Those are the ONLY two legal means for an employer to verify mil duty.

The harassment I referred to is any OTHER burdens imposed on mil members, ANY of which would be a violation of the law. This is quote common as HR and managers like to make up their own policies to discourage mil leave, essentially all of which are a violation of law.


Four indictments out of how many tens of thousands of vets with FAA certs?

Yes I'm upset because you've come where you obviously don't belong, weighed in things which you know nothing of, for the apparent purpose of venting your own personal angst against military members. I don't like people like you... either too much of a coward to serve, or didn't make the grade, and now resent others for their accomplishments.

Try improving yourself to build self-esteem, instead of trying to bring others down to your level. Get lost.

Did not know that for part-time M-day/TPU mil folks, good to know. I was speaking of AD and my own personal experience.

I see this all the time - bottom line - see an AME with military / VA experience - there are not many around - I am ONE AME who has this type of background -

Contact me

FAAaeroMed.com

Thanks

To tag on, PDRit, I’ve been a SQ/DO and Group Commander and never refused an employer’s request for verification of duty. I’ve taken calls from employers and issued LOR for one dude who thought he could use his unit as a way out of working. I was the DO when another officer thought using sick leave from his airline was OK to be on man-days. When caught, he was fired from the airline and discharged sans retirement from the military. There were aggravating circumstances, but that’s the gist of it.

No, honor is required and expected, as are flight skills. I’ve also participated in three Flying Evaluation Boards for flying deficiencies. Off came the wings for two of them.



Gf

IMHO:
Prison just screws the taxpayers out of $60,000 a year per inmate. The way to go is fines and community service to the order of 2000 hours a year for five years.

Prisons are big business and should be reserved for hardcore incorrigible inmates. Other offenders should literally pay for their crimes and not simply do time at the taxpayers expense. It's stealing twice!

4 indictments so far....

I’ve flown with plenty of pilots over the years that have bragged about their abusing MIL LV. Sometimes “thumper” or “fig leaf “ can’t contain their themselves and feel the need to share how they are manipulating the system. They get defensive and cite USERRA as their shield when I’ve expressed how they are screwing their fellow pilots and their company.

As for your last comment, go ahead Col Jessup, we want you on that wall, we need you on that wall. 😂🤣

Luckily having it properly documented was never in question in my case since I was on two military waivers for my last few years of flying; so the military, VA, and CAMI were on the same sheet of paper from the beginning.

There are plenty of legal ways to "screw" the company and/or your fellow pilots. I don't do it, I don't like it, and I tell my folks not to do it if for no other reason than it makes us reservists look bad and impacts employment opportunities for those who come behind us.

But it's perfectly legal to schedule your mil any way you want if it's consistent with military requirements. Ie if they're willing to pay you, it's legal. Neither of us have to like it.

My command has several key active duty leaders, all of whom like to take leave out of town over the holidays. Each year they ask me if I want to go on orders for a couple weeks during holiday routine... all I have to do is come in every couple days (legal holiday liberty rules), check email, and be available in my hometown via phone if the command center needs something. Beats the heck out of flying a junior line, but I always say no. Doesn't feel right. Maybe I'm stupid. But again, legal. Same for guys who take orders for their first 1-2 years at the airline. I counsel folks not to do it, and will generally not approve such orders if there are other alternatives. But again, all legal, legal, legal. Nothing to crack down on, unless you want to get "invited" down to the federal building for a deposition on your business practices relative to USERRA.

What should be "cracked down on" is people taking mil leave while not performing mil duty. This is actually very easy to catch, 100% of the time, but many airlines seem to be too busy harassing and obstructing legit mil duty that they don't have time to perform the simple verification which they are permitted to do in all cases.




GD Right.

They bragged, eh? Maybe “thumper” and “fig leaf” were telling the truth, or maybe you revealed where your goat was tied and they decided to get it. ;)

I'd be interested to know how many people receive VA benefits and have 1st class medicals. Seems like it's a bay area witch hunt for those nasty Trump loving veterans in what I would assume as the predominantly liberal northern California.

I would guess that MOST people with any class medical have omitted some sort of information on the path toward getting a medical, intentional or not. It all comes down to self preservation. I am not suggesting that someone lie about something that will affect safety, not at all, but I think most people have omitted SOMETHING. Any omission is technically the exact same as the four bay area guys that are being charged.

I have never heard of the FAA coming looking for minor omissions. I have heard of folks getting in trouble if inconsistencies come to light due to circumstances, but I think that depends on the seriousness. If you forgot to report your annual dental exam one year, I really doubt that would ever be an issue. It's probably a good idea to get any omissions resolved. You have to make your own decision as to how serious an omission might be, and what are the odds that it will ever come to light. There's some small risk of getting in trouble if you try to correct the record after the fact, but it's small I think. I'd go through a lawyer with experience in this area.

The only prosecutions I've heard of involved obviously disqualifying medical conditions, some of which came to light due to in-flight incapacitation.

The only times I'm aware of where the FAA conducted witch hunts, ie went looking for inconsistencies, it involved , again, serious disqualifying conditions. So far I'm aware of the VA thing, plus one a few years ago involving social security disability.

The DOJ will not attempt to prosecute anything which the jury will not see as an obvious big problem (even if the FAA wanted to). They have more important things to do. But the FAA can revoke your certs unilaterally, and there's little due process on that.

In the case of Cooper vs the FAA, which was the result of Operation Safe Pilot (when the FAA cross referenced social security disability records with the pilot database), the defendant did not report HIV on his medical and he was slapped with two years of probation and a $10,000 fine, plus loss of his certificates for a time period (later reinstated). I am not sure what the other penalties were for more egregious omissions.

Was there an incapacitation or something that prompted the four mentioned in the article to be investigated? Doesn't say in the article that I recall.

Was he actually sick? As in unable to fly? If he actually was sick (unable to fly), what would be wrong with going into his unit for ground duty? I can think of a score of reasons why someone would call in sick for their airline job/take themselves off the flying schedule at their Guard/Reserve unit but still be able to come in and man a shop, do LMS, etc.

He wasn’t sick, he was flying a trip for the Reserves. That was the problem.

GF

Depending on what type of sick they are - i.e. do they have a head cold, flu, something like that, then they should not go to work anywhere! I despise it when sick people come in to work and spread their illness. Stay home, get healthy.

Now if he had a broken hand or some such non-contagious ailment that simply downed him from flying, that seems reasonable to pull man-days at the office - so long as they just drop mil-leave at their employer.

I don’t think the guys were interested in my goat. They were so self absorbed I am not sure they would have been able to acknowledge existence of my goat. Although that’s not to say they wouldn’t have had inclinations toward a goat....as long as it was the pretty goat that liked big watches.

It is interesting to watch a chip on the shoulder actually grow larger with every post :D

There you go.....whatever you want to believe that makes you feel good and justifies you self worth.

I was told the marine word for airplane was to point to the sky and say “ugh ugh”! Thought maybe you would know? ;-)

You try to hard :D

It’s “too”......I rest my case...;-)

"Safe Pilot"
 

The FAA has been working to develop the "safe pilot" program since 2005. The Office of the Inspector General for the Social Security Administration (SSA) cross-checks randomly selected applicants for FAA airman medical certificates with the SSA disability database to determine if any applicants are receiving disability benefits from SSA.

More info here: https://www.leftseat.com/federal-avi...tration-faa-2/

AAnd your tooooo eazy ;)

It’s “you’re”. At least we know you are a real Marine.

And you take bait like a running salmon!
:eek:

Ok.....you guys were right.
It isn’t fun or even a challenge anymore.

I'm following the cases, since the indictments are public record through the PACER database in the SFO US district court. What I am more interested in (call it a morbid fascination) is the mechanism the FAA found out about the discrepancies. Fishing expeditions by agencies are expressly forbidden by federal law. Release of medical records are protected under privacy act laws, and we don't sign a medical release when we apply for an FAA medical (other than the NDR check, which we expressly authorize). The statement simply means the FAA will cross-check databases if able, which doesn't authorize a release of protected data. My completely uneducated guess would be to agree with the sentiment earlier in the thread that the FAA somehow used a non-protected means to gain enough probable cause to issue a subpoena. Also, sort of related... Why does this always happen in NorCal? Didn't the last round of this type of prosecution take place in NorCal?

IRS is a conduit used in the past. States can access federal tax records. through disclosure laws IRC 6103 stuff). States in past looked at differences between federal and state taxes. Once any fraud is suspected, its potentially criminal and then subpoenas of other records (FAA medical forms, VA, Social Security? ) I suspect are accessed lawfully under criminal investigation. Prosecutions of similar FAA and VA cases years ago followed a nearly same path.

This is how...

https://www.leftseat.com/federal-avi...tration-faa-2/

So do you check the box for receiving disability benefits if you have a military disability rating?

I'm considering filing for a shoulder dislocation I got on active duty but since I wasn't hospitalized (I'm assuming that means you were admitted as inpatient) it doesn't fit in the other boxes. I don't want to have to jump through a bunch of hoops though for 10-20%

Sure why not, I sincerely doubt the AME or the FAA gives a crap about a shoulder dislocation. I check it for my VA disabilities. Check a box if need be. No big deal.

As long as the history claimed on the FAA physical and VA paperwork MATCH and you can pass a FAA class 1 there isn't a problem. The problem comes when you tell one story to the VA and a different one to the VA.

Looks like the https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt-...qewPaQRC8QpGL/

Well that’s just a bit of a stretch....

Better get USERRA involved and the “how can you question my integrity” chant going.