You've got a pretty big axe to grind, must have really wanted to be in the military when they rejected you.

This is one of the pilots identified in the original story, ie nothing new.

But yes, this guy probably needs the book thrown at him.

I have no axe to grind. There are certainly some honorable people in the military. However my exposure to them at the airline has been for the most part those looking to cut corners, cheat the system and beat their chest. They are quick to yell for USERRA and always start with the “i can’t believe the company, other pilots etc would question my integrity “. All while boasting about something nefarious they did or planning to do.

I’m at the end of my career so I wouldn’t change a thing. I’ve been very fortunate and try to be a professional in my work and an accountable and responsible employee to my company. It does irritates me when I see pilots tarnish this profession with greed.

I just read an article today about a Delta Pilot, with prior Air Force service, who had a major depression claim filed with the VA and lied to the FAA saying he never had depression or anxiety while doing his annual class 1 medical. Long story short, he is locked up in prison and won't be flying for a while. :eek:

Yes, he's one of the four. Pretty sure he lost his certs and job, but don't know about prison yet. But based on previous similar cases of blatant falsification, he might well be doing club fed.

Last thing we need here is a German Wings or another Auburn Calloway.

This one hits sort of close to home, I know the guy. Good dude, he was my co-pilot back in ‘05. He clearly made an egregious error here. That said, he served for twenty and retired. I hope for his sake and the sake of his family (wife and small kid) that he just gets a fine and no club Fed. He’s already been fired and won’t ever get hired by an airline again - losing one’s dream job and having a permanent record with a fine seems like penalty enough, (to me at least); without also completely destroying the guy and his family with prison time. I suppose it’s different when you know the people involved...

OK, I'll be the one to be the bastard...
 

I remember getting my retirement briefings. I remember the volunteer from the VFW and others talking about VA disability with a wink and a nod. And there were no end if people who were willing to "represent" you to the VA , sometimes for money, sometimes because they thought they were being helpful to "coach you" on "how to maximize your VA disability ENTITLEMENT."

https://taskandpurpose.com/8-steps-w...ability-claim/

https://www.veteranslawblog.org/va-disability-ratings/

https://ptsdlawyers.com/increase-vet...lity-benefits/

Now some of these people - mainly the volunteers - are simply trying to help people navigate a screwed up system. A lot of them however, especially the play for pay ones - essentially coach you on the things to say to get a disability. Psych disabilities are the easiest. Most of them, like PTSD and depression, have no real objective findings and require none to make the diagnosis. Get enough right answers on your DSM-5 criteria and you have it made. Anyone coached properly is almost certain to get the diagnosis and the VA compensation. Basically anyone separating or retiring can defraud the system - if they are willing to perjure themselves. And there are plenty of shysters out there willing to encourage you to do it.

The fact is, anyone with PTSD or a Major Depressive disorder severe enough to warrant CURRENT significant disability probably wouldn't be separating and retiring at all, they'd be TDRL'd until recovered or medically retired. So either this gentleman had it and got over it - in which case he probably ought to have gotten a 0% disability as a placeholder in case the situation worsened, or he never had it at all. Yeah, that's cold, but if he was willing to lie to the FAA there is no good reason to believe he wouldn't have been willing to lie to the VA.

And this is just dumb as dirt, particularly for retiring people because for them it doesn't so much affect the amount of retirement you get as it does the tax status of retirement income you were already going to get.

The fact of the matter is that if this guy put in his twenty and had a standard (not medical) retirement, he is almost certainly not at serious risk for significant problems flying. Even if he had a history of major depressive disorder, they almost certainly would have waived it, albeit perhaps making him jump through a few certufication hoops perhaps, but most likely just accepting the military work up and medical waiver which he would have had to have had if the episode was at all serious - ESPECIALLY SINCE HE WAS A FLYER and even if he was not actively flying because he was in a non flying billet and had met his gates.

So this really ISN'T someone concealing a disqualifying defect in a desperate attempt to continue flying, it was someone trying to game the system for a few hundred bucks a month in tax benefits.

And yeah, he's going to pay an awful price for that, but as the old John Wayne meme goes:

Well if he wasnt depressed before then I bet he is now.

Yeah, that sounds about right. He was gaming the system most likely. It's a cultural thing, and you get encouraged to do it when you leave. But an O4+ with 20+ should be smarter than that.

:eek::) haha

Many folks on here will never understand exactly what you said... They want to burn him (them) at the stake and don't know what they would do in that same situation, nor are the details even known. This is no different than protesters in the street wanting justice for an officer involved shooting without knowing any facts, it's mob mentality.

Burn the witch, she turned me into a newt!

I love how our federal prosecutors go for the low hanging fruit like this. So many of our politicians and celebrity's get away with crap 10x worse than any of us have, or ever will, do and it's acceptable because they have the money, connections, and lawyers to get away with whatever they want.

I don't know the facts of the case or anything so personally, I will withhold judgement.

That may be true, but it's not particularly relevant. The issue here isn't the sirens tempting you with VA riches at separation. The issue is him perjuring himself on an FAA medical application. Some of us may not have gone though separation from the military, but I'm pretty sure that with a very few exceptions, we've all filled out a FAA medical application, and we understand that just fine. So spare us the condescending "you don't understand because you weren't in the ....yadda yadda yadda" horesecrap. This seems to be exactly what PDRit was predicting.

Yes, and I am not saying it is right, I am just saying try not to jump to a verdict. I bet most everyone could probably be found guilty of this if the search was thorough enough, even if it was something small and a non-issue. Trip to the doc because you thought you had an ingrown toenail, and forgot to mention it? Then you are also just as guilty.

All that said, I believe it is best to be honest and forthcoming, regardless of whether you may lose a medical. Most FAA people I have met and dealt with are nice and want to keep us flying if any way possible, but you may need to jump through some hoops.

I can also imagine when you have been flying for most of your life the temptation to omit may be greater. Someone could get into a spot where they can't afford to lose their ability to fly so they risk it by omitting.

He gambled and lost. Dont make excuses for his poor actions. This wasnt some shoulder injury he forgot to mention.

For clarity, it's understandable how someone could load up their VA rating on the way out, that's what we're all told to do by the experts who advise us on our transition to the civilian world (which many of us have no prior experience in).

Also understandable that some folks (maybe most folks) could have minor discrepancies from forgotten minor ailments or injuries in the past.

But claiming an OBVIOUS grounding condition with the VA and then NOT checking the box with the FAA is pretty darn blatant. Hard to come up with any mitigating scenario, unless he hypothetically got "competent" advice from a lawyer or AME to do that for whatever reason, in which case he probably has grounds for a big lawsuit.

The fed's enforcement of the felony aspect has been pretty consistent: You have to either go on record contradicting yourself with disability benefits for a grounding condition, or become incapacitated in flight with a grounding condition which you were aware of and didn't report. Those are both egregious and pretty easy to prove.

I don't *think* they're going to start scouring records in search of forgotten hangnails.

Thanks for making my point about Militart pilots...

Did my comment ALSO make your point about military pilots? Just wondering....

:rolleyes:

FYI, not a military pilot at all.. but glad you confirm how easily you can solve something with no facts.

" Trip to the doc because you thought you had an ingrown toenail, and forgot to mention it? Then you are also just as guilty."

No. You are not. Very poor analogy.

We are all capable ( and, probably guilty ) of accidentally forgetting a visit to a given doctor for a minor problem. NBD.

But "forgetting" that you have a Disability rating from your former Employer-The U.S. Military AND, that you have been receiving A CHECK EVERY MONTH for that Disability is hardly analogous to the above.

It is a blatant deception...Otherwise known as " You are a Fuc&ing LIAR. "

NO SOUP...JAIL FOR YOU!

:(

Ok, maybe not JUST AS GUILTY, but still technically guilty. If you go 60mph in a 55mph zone, its speeding and illlegal. You go 30 over and its speeding too but it's a little harder to believe one wasn't aware.

Both are illegal. Granted, one is a little more forgivable as an error and likely to incur lower punishment, if any. Point is, you can get a ticket for either.

You miss the back and forth I had with the mil guy that said he was allegedly spelling incorrectly on purpose.....seeing if he would take the bait. But found another.

Back to the issue at hand. Breaking a speed limit versus lying and claiming fraudulent benefits are not a good comparison. That is why there are felonies and misdemeanors. You are familiar with those terms I suppose?

You defending this guy is so typical of the guys I have flown with. All the bragging about claiming guard duty to avoid weekends and holidays at the airline. Or how they were getting the summer vacation they couldn’t hold in seniority with fake guard duty claims. Even had an FO that was retiring talking about he he was going to claim Mil disability and all the grounding conditions he had. But if they raised the retirement age he would be sure to stay

You accuse me of missing a back and forth you had - which I did not - but didn't even read my posting before replying. I didn't defend him, I accused him of fraud.

I am objective enough to call out those former military members who do things that are illegal, immoral, or just plain stupid. Are you objective enough to even look at what I posted before assuming I'm an apologist for all ex-military?

Apparently not.

Some depressing food for thought, after reading that at least one of the pilots mixed up in the indictments was pulling military retirement. If a person is pulling any sort of retirement, they are technically still in a reserve component of the DoD (USMC retirees are part of the FMCR while pulling retired pay, the Air Force is the 'Retired Reserve'). Which means they are still subject to the UCMJ. Which means the Air Force could go after him for misconduct and take his retirement away if he is convicted.

I have been dealing with the VA for 7+ years. The system is jacked up to say the least.

I filed for stuff that was broken on active duty (I have pretty severe orthopedic injuries and burns that the FAA knows about) and the VA for years has dragged on and on and on with exam after exam.

Every time I go in to an actual VA facility vs a contracted out one, they try to get me to amend my claim to include PTSD and TBI. They tell me that "you will get 100% no questions asked if you ask for it" based on severity of my orthopedic injuries.

Funny thing is the Navy assessed me for both, found I have neither (and the tests were pretty thorough) but the VA wants to push people to claim those.

Not that it makes what these four are accused of right, but that's how the VA themselves tries to steer guys.

In my case, they keep on telling me to file for things I don't have, but cant' be proven I don't if I say the right things, but won't give me a rating for the six pounds of hardware holding my legs and back together.

The system is jacked, and openly encourages people to claim **** that cant' be disproved.

Only "depressing" if his actions were unintentional. Not depressing at all if he got caught cheating the system.

Agreed.. I surely don't want to defend an intentional liar.

We had a pilot at my reserve squadron who told NWA he had SDO duty the week of Christmas.

Well, NWA called to check and found out he wasn't there. They fired him.

Damn, Ice Cube and Dre have no heart!

Incredibly unlikely for something like this. Retirees (who are actually on "retainer" pay until a certain age or number of years) are subject to recall but that is incredibly rare, and probably only going to happen for serious crimes against national security, ie espionage.

If you are a Regular (as opposed to Reserve) officer, they own you even after retirement, although I agree that I think the likelihood of you being called back into active service for strictly disciplinary matters is small. For other "needs of the service," well, it could always happen, either singly or in bunches:

Air Force: Pilots recalled under Trump order will serve as instructors, staff
By: Stephen Losey   October 23, 2017


The Air Force expects fewer than 200 retired pilots will return to active duty and serve as instructor pilots and in rated staff positions under an executive order issued by President Trump. (Staff Sgt. Caycee R. Cook/Air Force)

The Air Force expects fewer than 200 retired pilots will return to active duty and serve as instructor pilots and in rated staff positions under an executive order issued by President Trump.

The Pentagon originally said after the order was signed Friday that as many as 1,000 retired pilots could be brought back for up to three years. But in a gaggle with reporters Monday at the Pentagon, Brig. Gen. Mike Koscheski, the head of a task force dedicated to fixing the Air Force’s pilot shortfall, said it likely won’t be that many.

The AF stated their intent was voluntary recalls only, although the authorization was not limited to that.

After decades in the Navy I've seen only a couple retiree recalls, a couple seals, a couple nuke submariners, and a guy who was the only guy qualified to service a complex piece of medical gear.

Likely? Not unless there is a general mobilization, but possible? Oh yes.



Anyone intending to join the military - especially to accept a Regular commission, at least ought to be aware of the rules. Google this and it will send you to a PDF:


DOD Directive 1352.1 - Management and Mobilization of Regular and Reserve Retired Military Members

There are zero involuntary retired recalls. Throw the letter in the trash. Those guys all wanted to come back.

I wasn't that great of an officer when I (kind of) wanted to be there, I can only imagine how much my boss' life would suck if I was recalled involuntarily (probably just a little less than mine).

If there's a general mob, anyone who's fresh enough off of AD to be of interest to the government will probably be needing a job anyhow... something like that would be worth at least a 20% across the board airline furlough.

That’s funny and a great way to look at it....Place me in the same category.

I hope you’re proud of yourself! You sound like you have a solid record of screwing people, right or wrong.

You expect a certain standard of integrity in the military. If the person doesn't have that, you don't want them on your wing - or with access to weapons and munitions designed to break things and kill people. It's as simple as that.

If you can't understand that the problem is you, not galaxy flyer living up to the standards required of an organization commander.

Sounds to me like he did the right thing. The military is not some kind of mafia which protects it's own at all costs :confused:

So what would be your expectations that he do when one of the guys under his command tells his employer that he has guard/reserve duty to get out of work, when there actually was no duty, and that employer calls him to verify the duty?



It *sounds* like you'd expect him to lie, and tell the employer that the guy did have duty, but I could be misunderstanding you, so thought I'd ask you and let you explain what you meant.