Surgery and pain pills
04-07-2019, 10:57 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 9
Surgery and pain pills
I’m getting my wisdom teeth out some time later this year...they are impacted and I’m much older than the average patient for this......anyway my question:
Obviously I know I can’t take some pain pills and go fly.
If I take the pain pills after the procedure, recover a few days and go back to work, get popped with a drug test I’m told I’m ok with a prescription??
I plan on getting verification in writing from a chief pilot prior to the procedure but just curious if anyone knows..
Additionally, I can’t smoke marijuana with a prescription I know that. Not trying to find a loophole to smoke weed...just what’s the difference?
Thanks!
Obviously I know I can’t take some pain pills and go fly.
If I take the pain pills after the procedure, recover a few days and go back to work, get popped with a drug test I’m told I’m ok with a prescription??
I plan on getting verification in writing from a chief pilot prior to the procedure but just curious if anyone knows..
Additionally, I can’t smoke marijuana with a prescription I know that. Not trying to find a loophole to smoke weed...just what’s the difference?
Thanks!
04-07-2019, 07:47 PM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Yes you can legally use prescription drugs, and will not get in trouble if you pop positive due to LEGAL prescription drug use.
IMPORTANT CAVEATS:
1. You will have to wait the required interval from last dose before flying. Ask your AME, I can tell what the interval is for *most* drugs, but it is different for a few drugs.
2. Don't push the waiting period... if the drug test shows an excessively high level, they can determine that you didn't wait long enough... that's a violation. A prescription does NOT mean you can fly under even the slightest influence.
3. You have to comply strictly with the directions and limitations of the prescription. If you get something for wisdom teeth, save a few pills and use them for a headache next year, that's illegal drug abuse and will be treated as such. Don't pop positive outside of the timeframe for which you were prescribed the drugs.
4. I hope you're talking about vicodin. Marijuana IS NOT LEGAL per the federal government, not for recreational OR "medical" use. The FAA and DOT are FEDERAL agencies... I do not believe they will have any tolerance for the use of a scheduled substance which has NO legal application. You local or state hippies cannot wave their hookahs and magically supersede federal law. If you already took some, I would...
a) Call an aviation lawyer.
b) DON'T call your AME.
c) Figure out how long you have to wait to have ZERO chance of popping for marijuana on your first day back. Probably many weeks.
I probably wouldn't bother talking to your CP. He's not an expert, and it won't get you off the hook with DOT/FAA if you follow his bad gouge. Generally you want your employer to know as little about your medical situation as possible.
IMPORTANT CAVEATS:
1. You will have to wait the required interval from last dose before flying. Ask your AME, I can tell what the interval is for *most* drugs, but it is different for a few drugs.
2. Don't push the waiting period... if the drug test shows an excessively high level, they can determine that you didn't wait long enough... that's a violation. A prescription does NOT mean you can fly under even the slightest influence.
3. You have to comply strictly with the directions and limitations of the prescription. If you get something for wisdom teeth, save a few pills and use them for a headache next year, that's illegal drug abuse and will be treated as such. Don't pop positive outside of the timeframe for which you were prescribed the drugs.
4. I hope you're talking about vicodin. Marijuana IS NOT LEGAL per the federal government, not for recreational OR "medical" use. The FAA and DOT are FEDERAL agencies... I do not believe they will have any tolerance for the use of a scheduled substance which has NO legal application. You local or state hippies cannot wave their hookahs and magically supersede federal law. If you already took some, I would...
a) Call an aviation lawyer.
b) DON'T call your AME.
c) Figure out how long you have to wait to have ZERO chance of popping for marijuana on your first day back. Probably many weeks.
I probably wouldn't bother talking to your CP. He's not an expert, and it won't get you off the hook with DOT/FAA if you follow his bad gouge. Generally you want your employer to know as little about your medical situation as possible.
Last edited by rickair7777; 04-07-2019 at 07:59 PM.
04-07-2019, 08:40 PM
#3
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
https://www.foleyservices.com/news/g...ing-need-know/
Also:
DOT "Medical Marijuana" Notice
DOT "Medical Marijuana" Notice (PDF)
DOT Office of Drug and Alcohol Policy and Compliance Notice
Recently, the Department of Justice (DOJ) issued guidelines for Federal prosecutors in states that have enacted laws authorizing the use of “medical marijuana.” http://www.justice.gov/opa/documents...-marijuana.pdf
We have had several inquiries about whether the DOJ advice to Federal prosecutors regarding pursuing criminal cases will have an impact upon the Department of Transportation’s longstanding regulation about the use of marijuana by safety‐sensitive transportation employees – pilots, school bus drivers, truck drivers, train engineers, subway operators, aircraft maintenance personnel, transit fire‐armed security personnel, ship captains, and pipeline emergency response personnel, among others.
We want to make it perfectly clear that the DOJ guidelines will have no bearing on the Department of Transportation’s regulated drug testing program. We will not change our regulated drug testing program based upon these guidelines to Federal prosecutors.
The Department of Transportation’s Drug and Alcohol Testing Regulation – 49 CFR Part 40, at 40.151(e) – does not authorize “medical marijuana” under a state law to be a valid medical explanation for a transportation employee’s positive drug test result.
That section states:
§ 40.151 What are MROs prohibited from doing as part of the verification process?
As an MRO, you are prohibited from doing the following as part of the verification process:
(e) You must not verify a test negative based on information that a physician recommended that the employee use a drug listed in Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act. (e.g., under a state law that purports to authorize such recommendations, such as the “medical marijuana” laws that some states have adopted.)
Therefore, Medical Review Officers will not verify a drug test as negative based upon information that a physician recommended that the employee use “medical marijuana.” Please note that marijuana remains a drug listed in Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act. It remains unacceptable for any safety‐sensitive employee subject to drug testing under the Department of Transportation’s drug testing regulations to use marijuana.
We want to assure the traveling public that our transportation system is the safest it can possibly be.
Jim L. Swart
Director
Office of the Secretary of Transportation
Office of Drug and Alcohol
Policy and Compliance
Department of Transportation
October 22, 2009
Updated: Monday, October 30, 2017
Also:
DOT "Medical Marijuana" Notice
DOT "Medical Marijuana" Notice (PDF)
DOT Office of Drug and Alcohol Policy and Compliance Notice
Recently, the Department of Justice (DOJ) issued guidelines for Federal prosecutors in states that have enacted laws authorizing the use of “medical marijuana.” http://www.justice.gov/opa/documents...-marijuana.pdf
We have had several inquiries about whether the DOJ advice to Federal prosecutors regarding pursuing criminal cases will have an impact upon the Department of Transportation’s longstanding regulation about the use of marijuana by safety‐sensitive transportation employees – pilots, school bus drivers, truck drivers, train engineers, subway operators, aircraft maintenance personnel, transit fire‐armed security personnel, ship captains, and pipeline emergency response personnel, among others.
We want to make it perfectly clear that the DOJ guidelines will have no bearing on the Department of Transportation’s regulated drug testing program. We will not change our regulated drug testing program based upon these guidelines to Federal prosecutors.
The Department of Transportation’s Drug and Alcohol Testing Regulation – 49 CFR Part 40, at 40.151(e) – does not authorize “medical marijuana” under a state law to be a valid medical explanation for a transportation employee’s positive drug test result.
That section states:
§ 40.151 What are MROs prohibited from doing as part of the verification process?
As an MRO, you are prohibited from doing the following as part of the verification process:
(e) You must not verify a test negative based on information that a physician recommended that the employee use a drug listed in Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act. (e.g., under a state law that purports to authorize such recommendations, such as the “medical marijuana” laws that some states have adopted.)
Therefore, Medical Review Officers will not verify a drug test as negative based upon information that a physician recommended that the employee use “medical marijuana.” Please note that marijuana remains a drug listed in Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act. It remains unacceptable for any safety‐sensitive employee subject to drug testing under the Department of Transportation’s drug testing regulations to use marijuana.
We want to assure the traveling public that our transportation system is the safest it can possibly be.
Jim L. Swart
Director
Office of the Secretary of Transportation
Office of Drug and Alcohol
Policy and Compliance
Department of Transportation
October 22, 2009
Updated: Monday, October 30, 2017
04-08-2019, 03:51 AM
#4
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 9
Thanks for the replies!
Again, no I’m not trying to smoke weed and haven’t done so already lol....not sure what will be prescribed I’m guessing something like Vicodin.....I will be seeing my AME before the procedure.I’ll ask him about the required waiting interval. All Very solid advice Rickair!
Again, no I’m not trying to smoke weed and haven’t done so already lol....not sure what will be prescribed I’m guessing something like Vicodin.....I will be seeing my AME before the procedure.I’ll ask him about the required waiting interval. All Very solid advice Rickair!
04-08-2019, 07:03 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by Abc54321
Thanks for the replies!
Again, no I’m not trying to smoke weed and haven’t done so already lol....not sure what will be prescribed I’m guessing something like Vicodin.....I will be seeing my AME before the procedure.I’ll ask him about the required waiting interval. All Very solid advice Rickair!
Again, no I’m not trying to smoke weed and haven’t done so already lol....not sure what will be prescribed I’m guessing something like Vicodin.....I will be seeing my AME before the procedure.I’ll ask him about the required waiting interval. All Very solid advice Rickair!
04-08-2019, 07:06 AM
#6
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Many drugs are cleared sort of geometrically from the body, with half of what started being gone in a certain interval depending on the metabolism, excretion rate, and fat solubility of the drug. The general rule is that you want to wait five half-lives of the medication. For hydrocodone (that’s Vicodin) a half-life is four hours, so after 20 hours you ought not to have a problem. At that point the medication will be 97% eliminated.
04-08-2019, 07:16 AM
#7
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by rickair7777
The FAA specifies waiting periods for various drug categories, best to use their guidance.
For aviation safety, airmen should not fly following the last dose of any of the medications below until a period of time has elapsed equal to:
5-times the maximum pharmacologic half-life of the medication; or
5-times the maximum hour dose interval if pharmacologic half-life information is not available. For example, there is a 30-hour wait time for a medication that is taken every 4 to 6 hours (5 times 6)
Label warnings. Airmen should not fly while using any medication, prescription or OTC, that carries a label precaution or warning that it may cause drowsiness or advises the user "be careful when driving a motor vehicle or operating machinery." This applies even if label states "until you know how the medication affects you" and even if the airman has used the medication before with no apparent adverse effect. Such medications can cause impairment even when the airman feels alert and unimpaired (see "unaware of impair" above).
Allergy medications.
Sedating Antihistamines. These are found in many allergy and other types of medications and may NOT be used for flight. This applies to both nasal and oral formulations.
Nonsedating antihistamines. Medications such as loratadine, desloratadine, and fexofenadine may be used while flying, if symptoms are controlled without adverse side effects after an adequate initial trial period.
Muscle relaxants: This includes but is not limited to carisoprodol (Soma) and cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril).
Over-the-counter active dietary supplements such as Kava-Kava and Valerian.
Pain medication:
Narcotic pain relievers. This includes but is not limited to morphine, codeine, oxycodone (Percodan; Oxycontin), and hydrocodone (Vicodin, etc.).
Non-narcotic pain relievers such as tramadol (Ultram).
"Pre-medication" or "pre-procedure" drugs. This includes all drugs used as an aid to outpatient surgical or dental procedures.
Sleep aids. All the currently available sleep aids, both prescription and over-the-counter (OTC), can cause impairment of mental processes and reaction times, even when the individual feels fully awake.
See wait times for currently available prescription sleep aids
Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) - Many OTC sleep aids contain diphenhydramine as the active ingredient. The wait time after diphenhydramine is 60 hours (based on maximum pharmacologic half-life)
5-times the maximum pharmacologic half-life of the medication; or
5-times the maximum hour dose interval if pharmacologic half-life information is not available. For example, there is a 30-hour wait time for a medication that is taken every 4 to 6 hours (5 times 6)
Label warnings. Airmen should not fly while using any medication, prescription or OTC, that carries a label precaution or warning that it may cause drowsiness or advises the user "be careful when driving a motor vehicle or operating machinery." This applies even if label states "until you know how the medication affects you" and even if the airman has used the medication before with no apparent adverse effect. Such medications can cause impairment even when the airman feels alert and unimpaired (see "unaware of impair" above).
Allergy medications.
Sedating Antihistamines. These are found in many allergy and other types of medications and may NOT be used for flight. This applies to both nasal and oral formulations.
Nonsedating antihistamines. Medications such as loratadine, desloratadine, and fexofenadine may be used while flying, if symptoms are controlled without adverse side effects after an adequate initial trial period.
Muscle relaxants: This includes but is not limited to carisoprodol (Soma) and cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril).
Over-the-counter active dietary supplements such as Kava-Kava and Valerian.
Pain medication:
Narcotic pain relievers. This includes but is not limited to morphine, codeine, oxycodone (Percodan; Oxycontin), and hydrocodone (Vicodin, etc.).
Non-narcotic pain relievers such as tramadol (Ultram).
"Pre-medication" or "pre-procedure" drugs. This includes all drugs used as an aid to outpatient surgical or dental procedures.
Sleep aids. All the currently available sleep aids, both prescription and over-the-counter (OTC), can cause impairment of mental processes and reaction times, even when the individual feels fully awake.
See wait times for currently available prescription sleep aids
Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) - Many OTC sleep aids contain diphenhydramine as the active ingredient. The wait time after diphenhydramine is 60 hours (based on maximum pharmacologic half-life)
04-08-2019, 09:15 AM
#8
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Safer to let your AME do the math, and determine the pharmacological half-life, if any. You can do it yourself, and it will be fine as long as you do it right.
Again you don't have to wait for all traces to flush out of your system, like a pothead doing a pre-employment test. It's OK to pop positive if you have (and comply with) a prescription, and if the level detected does not indicate impairment. The DOT test is looking not just to see if you're high, but if you've been using at all. You're never allowed to be impaired on a DOT test, but detectable traces related to prescription medication is OK.
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