Which class medical?
08-19-2007, 07:34 PM
#2
Chief Jeppesen Updater
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Posts: 3,080
You don't need any medical to exercise the privileges of your CFI. Unless you get paid and your instructing in an aircraft. Then you are exercising the privileges of your commercial certificate and need a 2nd class medical.
08-19-2007, 09:00 PM
#3
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Posts: 189
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
You don't need any medical to exercise the privileges of your CFI. Unless you get paid and your instructing in an aircraft. Then you are exercising the privileges of your commercial certificate and need a 2nd class medical.
08-20-2007, 02:58 PM
#4
Prime Minister/Moderator
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Originally Posted by ppilot
This is incorrect in every way. You don't need a medical to instruct, unless you are giving instrument instruction or acting as PIC. If you are doing one of these things, you need at least a 3rd class medical. You are being paid for teaching, not for being a pilot, and don't need a 2nd or 1st class medical.
Correct, getting paid has nothing to do with it.
Legally you do not need any medical at all to flight instruct, UNLESS you are the required PIC on the flight. The CFI does not need to be the PIC if the student has a PPL or better in the aircraft and is rated and current for the flight conditions.
You cannot do these things:
Student Pilot training.
Instrument rating training in IMC (VFR hood training is OK).
ME rating training (or tailwheel, etc).
You could legally do these things (insurance may be another issue though:
BFR
IPC or Instrument rating (VFR hood only)
COMM, ATP, and CFI training
Aircraft familiarity checkouts
This rule exists to allow older, medically deficient, but very experienced pilots to instruct in conditions where the student can assure flight safety.
Last edited by rickair7777; 08-20-2007 at 04:12 PM.
08-20-2007, 03:54 PM
#5
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Posts: 10
Originally Posted by ppilot
This is incorrect in every way. You don't need a medical to instruct, unless you are giving instrument instruction or acting as PIC. If you are doing one of these things, you need at least a 3rd class medical. You are being paid for teaching, not for being a pilot, and don't need a 2nd or 1st class medical.
I was just making sure I can be a instrustor, PIC with a 3rd class medical. Thats if something dosnt work out and lets say I can't get a 1st or 2nd class for some reason, I could still fly and get paid.
Tom
Last edited by luniew; 08-21-2007 at 05:59 AM.
08-20-2007, 07:33 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Left seat
Posts: 189
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Correct, getting paid has nothing to do with it.
Legally you do not need any medical at all to flight instruct, UNLESS you are the required PIC on the flight. The CFI does not need to be the PIC if the student has a PPL or better in the aircraft and is rated and current for the flight conditions.
You cannot do these things:
Student Pilot training.
Instrument rating training in IMC (VFR hood training is OK).
ME rating training (or tailwheel, etc).
You could legally do these things (insurance may be another issue though:
BFR
IPC or Instrument rating (VFR hood only)
COMM, ATP, and CFI training
Aircraft familiarity checkouts
This rule exists to allow older, medically deficient, but very experienced pilots to instruct in conditions where the student can assure flight safety.
Legally you do not need any medical at all to flight instruct, UNLESS you are the required PIC on the flight. The CFI does not need to be the PIC if the student has a PPL or better in the aircraft and is rated and current for the flight conditions.
You cannot do these things:
Student Pilot training.
Instrument rating training in IMC (VFR hood training is OK).
ME rating training (or tailwheel, etc).
You could legally do these things (insurance may be another issue though:
BFR
IPC or Instrument rating (VFR hood only)
COMM, ATP, and CFI training
Aircraft familiarity checkouts
This rule exists to allow older, medically deficient, but very experienced pilots to instruct in conditions where the student can assure flight safety.
08-21-2007, 09:55 AM
#7
Prime Minister/Moderator
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Posts: 39,289
Originally Posted by ppilot
I am interested to know why you think someone could give instrument instruction VFR with a hood without a valid medical? You certainly can't safety pilot without a valid medical. Am I missing something here?
Instrument instruction in VMC conditions can be done one a VFR flight plan, or with flight following, or in non-congested areas all on your own without talking to anyone. You do not have to actually file IFR to log instrument instruction or to do practice approaches. If you are not in IMC and are not on an actual filed IFR flight plan, then the PIC does not need an instrument rating, just a PPL. The PIC can be under the hood.
A safety pilot must be rated (PPL or better) in the aircaft...he does NOT need to be current in the aircraft or have any medical at all. See 61.109
Of course pilots-in-training often share safety-pilot time in order to log PIC...and you do need to be current with a medical in order to log SP time as PIC. It's kind of a regulatory oddity...you MAY be a PIC as safety pilot, but you do not HAVE to be a PIC.
When you read the regs, you generally have to take them literally. Do not assume that anything not stated is implied, unless an FAA advisory circular or legal opinion has been issued to modify the literal interpretation.
08-21-2007, 10:21 AM
#8
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Posts: 762
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Yes, you're missing something.
Instrument instruction in VMC conditions can be done one a VFR flight plan, or with flight following, or in non-congested areas all on your own without talking to anyone. You do not have to actually file IFR to log instrument instruction or to do practice approaches. If you are not in IMC and are not on an actual filed IFR flight plan, then the PIC does not need an instrument rating, just a PPL. The PIC can be under the hood.
A safety pilot must be rated (PPL or better) in the aircaft...he does NOT need to be current in the aircraft or have any medical at all. See 61.109
Of course pilots-in-training often share safety-pilot time in order to log PIC...and you do need to be current with a medical in order to log SP time as PIC. It's kind of a regulatory oddity...you MAY be a PIC as safety pilot, but you do not HAVE to be a PIC.
When you read the regs, you generally have to take them literally. Do not assume that anything not stated is implied, unless an FAA advisory circular or legal opinion has been issued to modify the literal interpretation.
Instrument instruction in VMC conditions can be done one a VFR flight plan, or with flight following, or in non-congested areas all on your own without talking to anyone. You do not have to actually file IFR to log instrument instruction or to do practice approaches. If you are not in IMC and are not on an actual filed IFR flight plan, then the PIC does not need an instrument rating, just a PPL. The PIC can be under the hood.
A safety pilot must be rated (PPL or better) in the aircaft...he does NOT need to be current in the aircraft or have any medical at all. See 61.109
Of course pilots-in-training often share safety-pilot time in order to log PIC...and you do need to be current with a medical in order to log SP time as PIC. It's kind of a regulatory oddity...you MAY be a PIC as safety pilot, but you do not HAVE to be a PIC.
When you read the regs, you generally have to take them literally. Do not assume that anything not stated is implied, unless an FAA advisory circular or legal opinion has been issued to modify the literal interpretation.
Exactely, a safety pilot does not have to log that time as PIC, however if you do log that time as PIC you are acceptiing sole responsibility for the flight (while the other pilot is under the hood ofcourse), so if the the one under the hood busts airspace, and you were logging the time as PIC (being the Safety Pilot), you are responsible.
08-21-2007, 04:57 PM
#9
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Posts: 189
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Yes, you're missing something.
Instrument instruction in VMC conditions can be done one a VFR flight plan, or with flight following, or in non-congested areas all on your own without talking to anyone. You do not have to actually file IFR to log instrument instruction or to do practice approaches. If you are not in IMC and are not on an actual filed IFR flight plan, then the PIC does not need an instrument rating, just a PPL. The PIC can be under the hood.
A safety pilot must be rated (PPL or better) in the aircaft...he does NOT need to be current in the aircraft or have any medical at all. See 61.109
Of course pilots-in-training often share safety-pilot time in order to log PIC...and you do need to be current with a medical in order to log SP time as PIC. It's kind of a regulatory oddity...you MAY be a PIC as safety pilot, but you do not HAVE to be a PIC.
When you read the regs, you generally have to take them literally. Do not assume that anything not stated is implied, unless an FAA advisory circular or legal opinion has been issued to modify the literal interpretation.
Instrument instruction in VMC conditions can be done one a VFR flight plan, or with flight following, or in non-congested areas all on your own without talking to anyone. You do not have to actually file IFR to log instrument instruction or to do practice approaches. If you are not in IMC and are not on an actual filed IFR flight plan, then the PIC does not need an instrument rating, just a PPL. The PIC can be under the hood.
A safety pilot must be rated (PPL or better) in the aircaft...he does NOT need to be current in the aircraft or have any medical at all. See 61.109
Of course pilots-in-training often share safety-pilot time in order to log PIC...and you do need to be current with a medical in order to log SP time as PIC. It's kind of a regulatory oddity...you MAY be a PIC as safety pilot, but you do not HAVE to be a PIC.
When you read the regs, you generally have to take them literally. Do not assume that anything not stated is implied, unless an FAA advisory circular or legal opinion has been issued to modify the literal interpretation.
This is backed up by the regulations. 91.109 says that the safety pilot is a required crew member for simulated instrument flight:
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.
61.3 says that a required crewmember needs to have a current medical
(a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that person—
(c) Medical certificate. (1) Except as provided for in paragraph (c)(2) of this section, a person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft, under a certificate issued to that person under this part, unless that person has a current and appropriate medical certificate that has been issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the Administrator, which is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft.
The exceptions in (c)(2) have to do with student pilots, sport pilots, gliders, and balloons. The safety pilot needs to be able to act as PIC, and for that they need a current medical.
08-21-2007, 10:39 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by ppilot
No, no, no! This is all wrong. There have been many rulings that state the safety pilot needs to be able to act as PIC, whether or not they are logging PIC. Otherwise, why can't anyone that can look out a window be a safety pilot? They need to be able to legally fly the airplane.
This is backed up by the regulations. 91.109 says that the safety pilot is a required crew member for simulated instrument flight:
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.
61.3 says that a required crewmember needs to have a current medical
(a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that person—
(c) Medical certificate. (1) Except as provided for in paragraph (c)(2) of this section, a person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft, under a certificate issued to that person under this part, unless that person has a current and appropriate medical certificate that has been issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the Administrator, which is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft.
The exceptions in (c)(2) have to do with student pilots, sport pilots, gliders, and balloons. The safety pilot needs to be able to act as PIC, and for that they need a current medical.
This is backed up by the regulations. 91.109 says that the safety pilot is a required crew member for simulated instrument flight:
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.
61.3 says that a required crewmember needs to have a current medical
(a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that person—
(c) Medical certificate. (1) Except as provided for in paragraph (c)(2) of this section, a person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft, under a certificate issued to that person under this part, unless that person has a current and appropriate medical certificate that has been issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the Administrator, which is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft.
The exceptions in (c)(2) have to do with student pilots, sport pilots, gliders, and balloons. The safety pilot needs to be able to act as PIC, and for that they need a current medical.
The ruling I recall was based on a CFII with no medical...this is clearly legal, so they infered that a safety pilot didn't need a medical either.
Do have an AC or FAA legal opinion?
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