They know that since there is a perennial shortage of truck drivers the trucking industry, not the individual drivers, would have to eat the cost so their lobbyists went to bat. Airlines aren't worried because they know the pilots will pay for it themselves.

Sad but probably spot on.

What is Tilton's role here? Are medical device companies and disorder associations allowed to lobby the FAA or NTSB directly? Are there kickbacks or post Govt. positions on the line? Why is this his big cause? He got smacked down last year, reworded a few things, and is back this year. Seems very determined to get this testing done.

Remember what Deep Throat said?

Follow the Money. :rolleyes:

Tilton has since retired. His orignal plan to arbitrarily test anyone with a BMI 40 and higher and not issue a medical until it was resovled. That came under extreme pressure form all interested stake holders.

What was issued March 4th, 2015 is the new amended policy. Sneaky in a way but the way I read the document is you can't be denied soley on high BMI. Will a high BMI trigger an evaluation? That seems to be a 'clinical judgement' based on criteria to be determined by the AME.

Rest assured, if your evaluated you will be found to have sleep disorder. Here's your CPAP, see us in 30 days, what a crock.

If you go back to the original FAA 'study' of the matter, the OSA 'experts' were a couple of 'sleep disorder' doctors who own clinics. So yes, follow the money.


You'll also find that the same companies that administer the OSA tests also sell CPAP equipment. So it's in their best interest to find that you have OSA, so they get recurring sales of CPAP supplies.

That's not true. I read a couple of trucking forums on this last night.
New truckers are forced to go to doctors chosen by large trucking companies. Many of these doctors are forcing the applicants to get sleep studies, likely at clinics where they get kickbacks. It's another $2200 or so (between study and CPAP) for an applicant. Of course these OSA study/CPAP providers are nice enough to have automatic payments from new truckers' paychecks.

Even experienced truckers are being forced to pay for these contraptions out of their paychecks. So no, it's not the trucking companies paying for CPAPs, nor is it their insurance.

Tilton? (filler)

Dr Frederick Tilton. Former FAA head of the AME branch. FAA in Open Contempt of Pilots, Congress | Flying Magazine

He's the one that brought in sleep 'experts' who came up with this crap.


This should be interesting for international pilots who want to sleep during flight. Break out the CPAP and hook it up while trying to rest on a flight. ... for those that don't know, CPAP machines record usage.

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

We should all have wires hooked up for all sleeps, with live streaming data to the FAA. That way if we didn't get a full uninterrupted 8 hours we'd be grounded until we did. :rolleyes:

We'd need about 400,000 more pilots overnight if we did that though.

Not only do they record it on an internal card but the newest ones are cellular and send it daily automatically. I can go online and see my stats for the last 14 days. If you are not using it then the insurance company footing the bill has the justification to stop paying for it. The daily uplink must not be the full data set because for the FAA report I had to order a download from the CPAP company which they did remotely after I put in a request for 2 weeks of data. I then received a two page report that analyzed the data set.

For me, two weeks on the machine, and I am seeing definite benefits. And there is an airplane mode on the machine and I have heard of long haul pilots who plug them in and use them during their flights.

Also had a friend and his wife was complaining that he always woke her up...they both got tested and he was fine but she ended up needing CPAP.

The worst 'sleep' I've ever had in my career was right after our twins were born. I was a 727 F/O on reserve at the time (1989).

After a few sleepless nights, I called crew scheds and BEGGED them to send me ANYWHERE!

"I'll fly any trip, anywhere, just get me OUT OF HERE so I can get some SLEEP!!"

They had a good laugh over that, and sent me on a trip with long layovers.

Now, when ever I have trouble getting to sleep, I just think back to all those sleepless nights and pretend there's a crying baby in the next room who needs a diaper change and a bottle...

that will usually put me right to sleep!

Maybe Doctor Tilton will mandate that all airline pilots should be castrated as soon as they are hired? I'm pretty sure the pilots with young kids are getting a lot less sleep than the guys with OSA...

Some flight attendants may appreciate that as well.

Particularly the ugly ones. :eek:

Guess I'm an "obese" bodybuilder at 5'9" and 207. When I was USAF enlisted 25 yrs ago I received two weight waivers based on body fat vs BMI Chart. No luck here eh? I was a USAF firefighter/CFR before transitioning to flying. Would you rather have the buff gym rat with 35 pounds of gear and an air pack pulling you out of a burning BUFF And dragging you outside the death zone or the scrawny guy that comes in under the BMI index as normal? The BMI index is inaccurate for athletes and those with a higher percentage of muscle.

Can I chose the athletic looking girl
to pull me out and give me mouth to mouth?

You're thinking lifeguards! A USAF Female CFR is more likely to be the one throwing the first punch in a bar fight! "Athletic" sure... Mouth to mouth material... Not so much. But a great pickup line would be,"I'd let you work my Hurst Power tool for a forcible entry" (That's the official name for the jaws of life). Much more clever than hose and nozzle pressure jokes. Firefighter humor.

That is funny stuff :D

Had a class 1 this morning. I fit the bigger frame model. AME told me that he is giving Apnea info to all patients regardless if they fit the profile or not, furthermore he said he is using his clinical judgment as best as he can but he is recommending all patients visit their "real" doctor and get documentation verifying OSA status.

So what group did he put you in? I.e...group 3 (not at risk)...group 4(at risk but low)? etc

If you get the spec sheet B....that is what triggers an evaluation from a Doctor. As I understand the flow chart published by the FAA...once you get that....it will always kick you to getting an evaluation within 90 days.

If they both get me out of the "death zone" who cares? Suck it up fat boy, go get screened for OSA :D

Dragging you guys is one thing- lifting your 180 pound (yeah...right) limp self out of a seat and pushing you out a hatch - or down a hatch - is another. I'll take the guy that hasn't skipped leg day :cool:

I had the screening on my own with previous employer (instructor). Was not sleeping well and had a "what if" moment. Came back negative. Cost Was $6700 and I had a $40 co-pay. Ridiculous.

Guy my age (44) in good shape dropped dead of a heart issue and I got spooked and also got a stress test. 14 minutes on an exercise bike was $5400. Again $40 co pay.

These were done via my personal doc, not an AME.

Deleted...

Group 5 I guess...
 

I few days ago I went to renew my medical with a new AME. My usual AME retired and is no longer doing them. I’ve never had an issue with OSA until this time. I’m confused how I ended up in group 5 and how the AME came to this conclusion.

I got asked the usual questions like...

Do you snore. No
Do you get restful sleep. Yes
Do you take naps. No
Etc.

He went further and measured my neck. He used a higher BMI from a prior medical. He examined my throat and jaw line. He dinged me for be male. He dinged me for my age (43). He dinged me for controlled high blood pressure.

In the past an AME has just asked the OSA type questions and moved along and don’t understand why this guy took it to another level or if it was out of line for him to do so.

Anyways my medical is kind of in limbo at this point. It was issued to me and I’m not even certain of it was differed or denied. I went on the FAA MedXpress Page and it says that my data has not been transmitted?

I talked to my doctor and he does not think a sleep study is necessary but he is hesitant to provide a letter when the government is involved.

Sounds like that AME is not going to be getting a lot of business....

Care to post where you are, who he is? I don't want to be in that situation.

Yup! Find a different AME.

This^^
I know a AME that took over the old guys office and went "full auto" astronaut physical.
Word spread like wild fire and pilots diverted all over the place.
Couple years later things have settled down but I don't think they ever recaptured the lost clients.

As it should be.

Those type guys usually don't do well for long. And AME should be a facilitator and an advocate-not some ******* out to ground half the base-like back in the old bomber wing.

I had my medical a few days ago. My AME is the former head of the Medical Cert branch. For the first time I had to fill out a form with OSA questions. I answered them and turned in the form. Being that this was the first time to see him since our former 'flight surgeon' retired, I wasn't surprised that the medical was a little more in-depth than others had been when I had been seen the last guy for 7 years, but no fuss, no mess so far. Just relating my recent experience.

True in many ways..........but remember that it isn't the FAA's mission any longer to "keep the world flying" ;)

You can blame the lawyers for much of that.

OSA Assessment
 

This week I saw a Pulmonologist/Sleep Doctor to complete an OSA assessment. I was expecting that he would set me up with a sleep study but he did not. Based on his assessment he concluded that I am at a low risk for sleep apnea.

I have until January 16th to get a letter submitted to the FAA. This doctor said he would write a letter but he has never dealt with the FAA. He asked me what the FAA will need to see in this letter. Is there specific information the FAA requires in letter after an OSA assessment?

Thanks

OSA
 

Something to the essence of patient does not appear to suffer from symptoms of OSA based on my evaluation.

Your BMI is not the real issue, Obese Pilots
 

The issue is not obesity it is that you are flying without proper rest, or more serious you could die, Sleep apnea is a serious sleep disorder that occurs when a person's breathing is interrupted during sleep. People with untreated sleep apnea stop breathing repeatedly during their sleep, sometimes hundreds of times. This means the brain -- and the rest of the body -- may not get enough oxygen. If you have sleep apnea and it is treated usually with a CPAP machine you will get your medical, the FAA however does not want you flying if you have OSA untreated.