Cadet program status
 

Discussion that’s been going on over at Envoy thread about the status of cadets. Even though Envoy plans to put current pilots on the street, the cadet program is still being funded. Anyone know what’s happening with the PSA cadet program?

So you still haven't figured out that your screwed?

1) agree with above

2) put more gently, PSA now needs to grow 50% before hiring new people. In the best case scenario that will be a couple years away.

3) cadet programs are a historical anomaly. Generally regionals who need pilots just post an opening and applications >>> positions. That norm is likely to resume.

Envoy has cadets that are still receiving pay and benefits and when Envoy starts furloughs, those cadets will still have benefits and pay that seniority list pilots don’t. Is that the situation at PSA?

Yep....as of right now. Furloughed pilots will get 12 months of D2R while PSA Cadets will continue to get D2 travel. What a crock of crap

What? Why do you think we get travel benefits at PSA?

PSA sent out an email recently that the PSA Cadet program is going nowhere. They say its a priority to keep it around.

it’s a cheap hedge in case the industry rebounds

And it’s probably fair to say the cadets aren’t going anywhere either

[QUOTE=Macchi30;3137487]What? Why do you think we get travel benefits at PSA?

Why should you continue to get D2 travel privileges under the Cadet program while 723 furloughed pilots get D2R for 12 months? Every cadet should be rethinking their decision to go to PSA if things ever rebound there. They’re the absolute worst in the industry right now. Management has shown their true colors.

Cadets aren’t under the pilot CBA.

They need to axe the program if they are looking for cost savings. No need to have Cadets with flight benefits when we are putting 700 plus pilots on the street. Goes for PDT and Envoy as well well.

Nope. And hopefully they’ll walk away to another airline when hiring starts so they’ll never be under the PSA CBA.

[QUOTE=boxthrower;3137576]I have no idea what you are talking about. We are not PSA employees, so we don't get travel benefits

[QUOTE=Macchi30;3137635]Ahhh my bad. I thought y’all’s was like Envoy’s

Cadets will not be required for at least 5 years.
sorry them the facts. So why are the w/o still paying the cadets 350 dollars a month us them being non employees have higher priority of an active employee being furloughed. Total b.s.

where are you getting this information? I’m confused why everyone here seems to think that PSA cadets get travel benefits and receive pay. There is no monthly pay or any sort of company benefits since we are not PSA employees. The benefit for being a cadet was a nice bonus(before COVID) mentorship, and priority for base selection during training.

This. Once hiring resumes, it will be people with turbine time, prior 121 time, etc. The days of 1500 hours as a CFI are over for a while, sadly.

‘PSA cadets do not get paid..... But still don’t change my opinion they should axe the program if the company was looking for ways to cut costs.

Then may I correct this then, envoy does. Travel, medical, top seniority in new hire class and 350 per month (still) on top of bonuses. As told to me by a former recent envoy recruiter.

I am aware, just remember PSA and Envoy aren’t too similar in regards to Cadets getting paid and getting base/jet selection/seniority preferences on Day 1. All PSA offers\Ed to Cadets were bonus installments depending what status the cadet was and a job with PSA.

I feel like there are more CFI’s in this thread than PSA pilots lol

It does doesn’t it.

For all the CFI Cadets who are in here let it be simply put. 723 PSA pilots are being furloughed. If that doesn't really tell you about the status of the program you are not looking big picture or forward into the future. Before you even have a class date they are going to have to bring back all the furloughed FO's.

This isn't going to happen anytime soon. The day of being a 1500 hour CFI and going straight to airlines will not be coming back anytime soon. There already have been closures of other regionals with pilots who have ATP's and thousands of hours. When hiring resumes that is who you will be competing with. There is still a large possibility even more regionals will go under. Bankruptcy is even on the table at this point for certain carriers. The airlines who have not furloughed or found a way to mitigate it have just kicked the can down the road until March. If things do not drastically drastically change by then, which is not looking good considering the return we've seen, get ready for furloughs round 2 and airlines who did not furlough start doing so.

Keep CFI, see if you can find a good corporate gig, which is even going to be difficult at this point, and find somewhere you'll be happy working the next few years if not longer.


There is your not sugar coated 100% honest to God truth about PSA and the industry as a whole right now.

I was hoping, and sort of under the impression that new hire training would resume sometime in early 2022

Put it this way. Assume that PSA and/or AAG management somehow strong-arms SAP out of the picture, whether through BK or a PBS-or-we-shut-the-doors promise. How long will it be before PSA needs 724 more pilots... or how long until furlough return rights expire? The first of those two happening is the absolute earliest that new hire classes will start.

Also keep in mind that we are also no longer a 150 airplane airline. We are now a 130 airplane airline. It will be a long while before we start new hire classes.

Hoping is nice but I'm kind of curious what gives you the impression that new hire training will resume in 2022?

If its emails from the people running the program or anything from the company take it with a grain of salt. Like others have said it's not just a covid problem for us anymore. We were overstaffed when we had a 150 aircraft fleet prior to covid. We parked the 200s for good which brings us down to roughly 130. They want SAP to go away in favor of PBS. PBS is more efficient than SAP therefore would equate to needing even less pilots. Nothing in stone about new aircraft coming to replace the 200's we parked for good.

Go on the TSA website to see numbers of travelers, even though it is not 100% accurate, we haven't broke 1 million since March. We are roughly 1/4 of normal travel for same time last year.

that’s exceptionally optimistic. Reasons

1) PSA was staffed for a growing, 6-base, 150 ship airline with substantial pilot departures. They not only needed to fly 150 airplanes but they needed 100-150 trainees in the pipeline at all times to handle attrition. Even assuming psa goes “back to normal” the new normal will not require everyone who was furloughed. We’re now a stagnant 4-base 130 ship airline.

2) management has made it clear their primary priority is work rule changes (sap to pbs) that will reduce staffing needs. PSA’s growth (and probably survival) is dependent on this reduction in future hiring needs

3) even assuming they start recalling pilots next month they would need to train 50 pilots per month to start hiring early 2022. That’s close to maximum new class velocity the past few years. Not gonna happen.

We’re not trying to stomp your dreams, but the world we all knew is gone. Make your plans based on what you see now, not what you saw a year ago.

Here for the dogpile. Lots of us had CJOs and class dates that were rescinded...so you’ve got people who are currently ahead of you in the flight time game, yet who are behind the thousands of regional pilots who recently lost their jobs.

Remember, too...the military usually
churns out 1,000 airline pilots per year. In recent history, they almost exclusively went to the majors. Lots of those guys are staying in until this blows over, and the ones who are getting forced out are working desk jobs and staying current on the side. Once the regionals start hiring again, and especially if mainline hiring lags, you can believe that many of those dudes are going to be applying to the regionals in droves—thousands of them with thousands of hours of very high quality multi-engine turbine time.

Do not hedge your bets on getting a 121 interview in the next few years. Put all of your eggs in that basket at your peril.

Dont think a lot of young CFIs realize how long this is going to take to bounce back. Now that Oct 1 has hit the only flying jobs available will be CFI and crappy 135 gigs.

And even those are very difficult to get.

https://i.ibb.co/Bzw5SFN/80-DC5-A6-D...E27-B19-F3.jpg

Actually, that WAS sugar coated.

LOL can't actually say hey the industry is f*cked without it being censored or me getting banned.

How many were furloughed?

723 furloughs going back just over two years

Any downgrades beyond that?

roughly 300 downgraded

Are you guys dual qualified or do you need retraining for the downgrade?

we don’t allow that, so more training

Confirmed. Cadets have D2, and furloughed pilots are D2R

Not all of them, but yes