pagey

Those may be correct, I think It'd be close. Lets assume they are though.

There's about 15 regional airlines out there. I didn't count Great Lakes. If you can only name 4 who have better pay than PSA what exactly is the issue?

I hate that AAG put us in the position to take concessions but we are still in the top 5ish, so top 30% of our industry section even after taking concessions. People lose things all the time to better their long term position. AAG gave up slots in DCA and JFK, professional sports teams give up top players for prospects.

Our vote obviously didn't effect or influence other votes since 3 other airlines voted no even after PSA voted yes. In fact, I'd wager that if we had voted no things would've turned out differently. We are much smaller than eagle. If we had voted no AAG could've immediately started a drawdown. We only have 47 acft. If that had happened it would've put a lot more teeth behind AAG's threat to shut Eagle down as well. Something to think about.

SkylineAviation

Honest question, I read a lot of people here defending PSA and its current contract saying how much money you make and how things are good because of upwards progression, pay, QOL, security, etc, etc. If that's all true why does management want to break the contract of other regional's, and the model being PSA and/or Pinnacle? Management specifically uses the names of the those two companies in how they want to arrange and model our contracts to mirror yours.

Now it's obvious why they all want the costs of Pinnacle, but PSA is mentioned in the same breath. The reason why Envoy is having the problems they are having is because of the cost structure PSA has, due to the contract you recently voted in. That comes right from management and our MEC. I would argue that Envoy captains make was much as anyone at PSA or elsewhere especially when scheduling is offering 1.5 on a regular basis, not to mention the unblocking of all OT for FO's and captians.

I'm not trying to start a whole new war between PSA and Envoy, but if your contract is NOT concessionary why would management want to make our contracts like yours? And to tell you the truth I don't know a lot about your contract so I really am asking a serious question.

pagey

No one has anything like we have in the entire industry. They literally had NO CLUE how much our scheduling section was going to cost them last summer when the negotiations for our most recent TA were getting started. It's not just pay either. They'll need more staff.

They are just now realizing what kind of cost this thing really is.

When management across the industry look at PSA's "cost structure" they see one thing: Pay caps.

They are blind to everything else because they are convinced that this is the holy grail that is going to save the regional model. In the case of Pinnacle they may have something. Not so with PSA.

Email your negotiators and tell them to get a copy and paste of PSA's scheduling section. I bet it's a non-starter.

SkylineAviation

So basically what you're saying is that the scheduling section of your contract was/is unaccounted for during negotiations and is still unaccounted for with management. Hence the reason your contract is not concessionary. But if you guys are doing so well with it, can't you foresee management making changes to it for their benefit. I believe AAG management has proven they will change things at their will only for a union to later grieve which takes months and years to resolve (at least at Eagle that's how it works).

So take away that section your contract would otherwise be concessionary and which is why they want to mirror your contract (without the scheduling section) for all other regional's. Would that be correct?

If I'm not mistaken, you guys have incremental increase YOY in insurance costs and pay caps. Which is to say each year you take a hit in pay and when the music stops in hiring, or someone gets stuck at PSA, they begin to lose money every year because of the pay cap. Would that also be correct?

skyxbomb

I'm sure envoy or other decent regional pilots can make as much if not more due to the premium pay during your days off. The only saving grace in our contract is the scheduling section like pagey mentioned. We don't need to work on our days off to get premium pay. We just drop a 4 day trip and pick it back up and get 1.5 pay with same amount of days off as our original award. Or you can have 16-17 days off for the month if you need a break.

SkylineAviation

I'll admit, that's a pretty good deal. I just can't imagine how management negotiators missed that one or how they're current not trying to think of a way to change it.

pagey

Of course they've thought of ways to change it, that doesn't mean they can change it. The same way they can't just say "welp I think we're actually going to pay everyone $1 less per hour next month".

I don't know what you are referring to in Eagle's contract that has been violated but I can assume it's the flow. I don't know anything about that but perhaps the language is a little grey.

I never said our contract wasn't concessionary. It certainly is. What I'm asking is, why all the PSA bashing when we are still in the top 3rd of regionals compensation wise? We gave a little to get a little. Our union has a longer term strategy where they think they can get not only increased hiring requirements from the new AA but also some give back on the concessions.

The insurance sharing is definitely another concession. The full amount will take effect in 2017 and will cost me 8 dollars more a month than what I'm paying now. I'm single. The most expensive family plan is looking at about 40 more per month. So it's there but its difficult to argue that its significant.

It was not right for AA to come to us for concessions given their financial standing but I can understand why people at PSA voted yes. It benefits a large majority of the pilot group, and those that it negatively effects will, in theory, be at AA within a couple years whereas they had pretty much no chance before.

SkylineAviation

As far as the Eagle contract violations, it goes further than the flow but that's whole different conversation and mess. I'm not trying to bash you guys, quite frankly it's getting old anyway. I hope you guys can maintain your scheduling portion and good luck.

seafeye

The TA signed has some major issues.
One is that we have a 12 year pay cap. Not everyone at PSA has a pay cap of 11-12 years. But just those who are under the 10 year mark.
The problem with this is that we belong to a union. And we should all be treated equally. Now why does a senior Captain deserve 18 year pay ($10/hr) and others don't? It goes against the whole philosophy of the union.
The SAP is great but it isn't without the problems. Just don't plan on changing your schedule around if you have a medical or training due. Huge flaw that our MEC has seemed to have given I up on.
On paper our 12 year Captain pay is equal to endeavor. The lowest in the industry. Yes you can make more with the SAP but if you drop down to 65 hrs and don't pick up any time you will be getting paid 65hrs at the lowest rate in the industry. Our per diem is also one of the lowest.
But.... If you want to work hard to make extra money then the opportunity exists. For now.
But having a job that pays the mortgage is great. We have seen Mesa and Republic grow on the airways side. Look what JO did with Mesa pilots. How many gotlaid off?
Republic with a 10 year old contract.
Focus on helping them get the SAP and we will all be in a better place.

pagey

The medical thing can be fixed by getting your medical one month early every year. The very very small extra cost associated with this is easily made up for by the SAP and its associated language.

The training thing can be fixed by dropping the carry out trip that touches your month of training.

They haven't given up on anything, they gave solutions.

You don't have to "work hard" to make extra money. I'm at ~95 hours for may with 18 days off. I'm right at 65 hours block.

Some people definitely got screwed by this deal and you are one of them considering your longevity. You also have a very good chance of being at AA within 2 years. If you don't want AA well you already got hired somewhere else so there's that=)

This deal is not perfect, and probably should never have happened but we are also not pinnacle, or even close.