No, it's a fact. Some of the people over the last year that couldn't get through our training program, after failing a type ride and or oral.. Get hired directly to into PSA. I have seen it firsthand from our training center. More than once.

If you were regional captain interviewing for a major. Would you look at the gouge? What's the difference? Seems to be a lot do this.

Scary


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Not really. Either you know it or you don't.

It's okay. All of our rejects end up at Mesa.

Not well at all

I know first hand, it is false. You are trying to spread rumors that are untrue and not factual.

Give it a rest. Just because someone didn't make it through one program doesn't mean anything. There are a multitude of reasons....are you that high and mighty? Oh wait it's Envoy... I get it...the chosen ones, the few, the proud...fml.

Clearly, this was written by someone with an agenda of dissuading pilots from going to PSA. And in all honesty,........ if a pilot/applicant is dumb enough to believe what this clown has written,...... I don't want them at PSA. Please go to Envoy. You'll fit in much better there.

I think Envoy has a nice work release program too for pilots.

I hate to break it to you but Yes PSA will Park CRJ's very very soon. The writing is all over the wall. PSA simply can't handle the flying and we all know it. I'm sorry but PSA is no longer the place to be for a newhire unless you want to be at the bottom of the list with little if any movement or wait for a 20 year AA interview. I would rather go somewhere with REAL flow.

How come? PSA is fat 300 FO's right now and has done a superb job bringing in over 60 new pilots per month to handle the 3 new airplanes per month. That to me sounds like a recipe for success.

The growth is just getting started, another 70 airplanes will be on the property by the end of 2017.

Not only that, Envoy pilots are coming over to PSA too to fly for us as Captains.

If PSA can't handle the flying knowing everything described above, just which airline can?

Now I'm going to sing a song. Sing along with me. "PSA oh PSA how do we love thee. You're the best regional airline for both you and me"

Everybody now

Bull****. All you're trying to do is trying to convince people not to come here by spreading lies based on no evidence whatsoever. There is literally an unlimited amount of lies you can pull out of your rear end so arguing with you is pointless. It is my hope that the reader sees you for what you are, a fear monger who's trying hard to prevent people from coming here

Actually he is right. PSA will be parking CRJ aircraft sooner than you are telling new hires. The fact that PSA is hiring street captains makes it even worse for all the recent and future new hires, since their upgrade time frame has just increased due to street captains coming in below them.

It is obvious there is a goal of PSA recruiters and PSA pilots to come on here and spread misinformation about the true state of the industry and specifically PSA's situation, in an attempt to lure new hires behind them in order to secure their own upgrades. Unfortunately for you, that plan has already failed and is showing.

Yeah, actually it means a lot. It means they can't learn the material given to them like everyone else and they can't perform under the pressure of a type ride in emergency situations. I've spent time in the sim with some of them and many hours of my time trying to help out.

This isn't the people with family emergencies or other issues like that I am talking about. Or somebody that makes a dumb mistake on a ride once.. This is the people that just plain don't get it. Get easily overwhelmed and freeze up like deer in headlights under pressure. Even after lots of hand holding, hours of help with study, extra sims, and a second type ride attempt. They Still just don't get it and resign to go to another carrier (who just hired them) before getting "released" (fired) on their 3rd failed attempt.

Nothing false about it. PSA still hires them with recent failed initial 121 type rides, Mesa has been scooping them up too. Amazes me they still do it after the Colgan incident, but it IS happening.

Of course the pilots with training problems aren't going to advertise it to everyone, But the Check airman and instructors in the training center see it, the people in the office doing PRIA requests see it. It's well known that it's happening.

You aren't getting 30/mo of the best and the brightest in this dried up regional hiring environment. Some are.. Many aren't. PSA is scraping the bottom of the barrel to constantly fill that many classes.

Straight fire APC Hall of Fame posting right here.

Nicely done...... The "everybody now" truly puts it over the top.

Time is something ExpressJet doesn't have.

Actually it only makes it worse for you at Envoy, since the bulk of our new Captains are going to come from Envoy. I see why you guys are going crazy over there, its hard to watch the disintegration of your airline. But the strongest must survive. It's not our fault Envoy is going out of business.

LOL I'm a recruiter now? You should do standup. I'm a regular pilot like everyone else here. I personally don't give a rat's a$$ if you come here or not, the only reason I decided to respond is because you and your "ilk" for whatever reason are doing nothing but spreading misinformation based on NO evidence with the sole malicious intent of discouraging people from coming here, and it needs to be called out because it's classless and low. We are still hiring pilots left and right, that's a fact, and the situation at the moment is that because too many FOs are bypassing the upgrade (either because they don't want to sit reserve, OR they don't have 1000 hours of SIC time) pilots with new hire seniority are getting captain spots (hence the last bid award with 7 captain awards for people in new hire status).

These are verifiable facts. Your malicious lies are just that. Lies. Based on no evidence whatsoever, you just keep pulling them out of your a$$

All that says is some newbie pilots simply go to places like Envoy to practice and get extra sim time before going over to their true destination airline, all fresh and current, ready for training.

Actually right now it seems to be 20-25 every two weeks.

But keep in mind, according to eaglefly Envoy would have to hire 50/month to have enough warm bodies in the house for Mason, er, I mean Cujo's dreams of a bigger better Envoy with 6 year flow to AA.

You think your applicants will be any better?

In any event, 3 people in my class did not make it through the sim. One is at Mesa, the others PDT.

What would be a good projected upgrade time for a new hire with no 121 time coming in after all these street captains are hired?

Follow the logic.
 

Let's follow the logic that RyanP is trying to drop on us. He'd have us believe that a good number of envoy new hires that are failing their oral or type ride are simply moving on to PSA or Mesa, ........the very next day, (which of course is preposterous, given the fact that it'll take weeks from the date of application to the date of interview, alone).

What that tells me is that ENVOY is an airline with low hiring standards! Following Ryan's logic, envoy is really scraping the bottom of the barrel and hiring pilots who are not able to pass their initial 121 training.

Of course, the truth of the matter is that envoy probably IS scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to find new first officer candidates,....... just like every regional airline. The big difference right now is that PSA is offering immediate captain opportunities to experienced first officers at other airlines who clearly have no hope of upgrading at their respective airlines in the foreseeable future.

Well to date there are only 7 street captains that I am aware of.

It's going to take you probably 1.5 years to acquire the needed 121 time as FO before upgrading.

There are 70 more airplanes coming over the next two years, there will be plenty of opportunity to be a captain very quickly here at PSA. If you are looking to do some math, figure at a minimum each airplane is staffed with 10.5 pilots (or more if you include instructors etc.. on the seniority list).

Well, given the fact that PSA is only 1/2 way to their stated expectation of having 150 airplanes by the end of 2017, I'd guess that the upgrade time for today's new (to 121) hire is probably in the 2 - 3 year range.

So what is the upgrade time for that same new (to 121) hire at envoy, ASA, SkyWest, Mesa, RAH, or others?

2-3 years upgrade.
25 year flow

ALPA has failed miserably and its time we end their service.

I wouldn't worry about flow, its meaningless. In five years you won't even care.

Great, Thank you for the responses.

Wouldn't shock me if it were not that much longer at some other places in the not too distant future once major hiring really picks up.

I think at that point you'd see a problem in attracting new hires as there already is. Imagine xjt, Skywest, republic, envoy, PSA and all other regional carriers FO's upgrading in 2-3 years from now. It'll be hard for them to attract new hires to replace those positions. It'll be like this at every regional except for the ones that are dying off and shrinking.


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I hate to say it, but I think wholly owned carriers may unfortunately become a new rung on the career ladder in the future. I only say that because I feel that non-wholly owned regional airlines will be the first to fail because without the support of the parent airline, its hard for them to compete for new hire pilots. Don't get me wrong, I think one way or the other they will all eventually fail, but wholly owneds may be the last to fail.

Of course non wholly owneds such as Republic or Skywest could turn in to competition or some form of aircraft leasing company. Someone on this forum proposed an interesting theory where mainline pilots could fly smaller aircraft owned by third parties.

But even if Republic and Skywest are not wholly owned, aren't they also too big in the regional network to just fail? Wouldn't that send shockwaves in the whole feeder industry for the major airlines? They still have a very very large pool of qualified pilots that they would have to account for. I guess I'm not sure how even becoming a leasing company for the majors would play out. It just seems like these non wholly owned pilot groups outnumber by vast numbers the wholly owned pilot groups.

You guys all act like this is a bad thing.

The end of seniority is the only thing that will save the career in the long term.

Would would the regionals be leasing airplanes to majors when the majors can borrow cash from the banks cheaper than the regionals can ?

I will further theorize that Major airlines will drain the pilot forces of the non wholly owned carriers. Without flow agreements or wholly owned affiliations, there is nothing to stop major airlines from draining these airlines of their pilots till they completely fail. Wholly owneds are not going to be drained as quickly as the parent airline will not want to drain their own owned feeds. That's why the flow is a tool for management and not pilots.

In conclusion, its a good time to be a pilot at a non wholly owned carrier, as you will likely be among the first to be scooped up by major airlines. However, on the flip side, it is not a good time to be a non-wholly owned new hire. When the music stops, your only chair might be to get hired at a wholly owned regional and wait your turn in the flow line. Of course there are LCC's etc. but that is outside the scope of what I am saying.

It is hard to understand from an economic perspective how two giants like Republic and Skywest would fail when they have more airplanes on property and more pilots. Combined they do more flying for United/American/Delta. It's true that all the regionals are losing a tremendous amount of pilots and their contracts are not attractive enough to hire as many pilots as they would, but the wholly owned airlines are also having a hard time hiring pilots. I'm not siding at all with Republic or Skywest but I don't think they would fail or disappear from the regional airline market.

Ok now I see your point. It could happen that way.

Another way to look at it is like this. Pretend you are the ceo of one of the big three. You need to hire pilots in the amount that exceeds what's even available at the regionals. Which airlines make the most sense to drain first? Am airline that you own or an airline that someone else owns.

Because the regionals have the orders already in place with spots in the production order reserved. The majors can easily secure financing for the planes, but they'll have wait years for them to show up on property. Skywest has orders for 400 175s and 175E2s. That's several years worth of production to get through before UAL, AA or Delta could get theirs. Hence, Skywest could lease the planes they have ordered or simply sell their spots in line for a profit.

Yeah, it will be very interesting to see where the regionals will be in 3-5 years. The numbers are just staggering any way you dice it.

Nice username and avatar. I love CYE


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