I don't know. I think it was a mistake not taking the retention. Would we have said no if the company would have offer an additional flow? I don't think so. I mean we didn't really get anything out of the last ta besides an additional flow number. Back then (month or so ago) it was well we know it won't fix their problem but let's take it and show we are supporting their effort and they will have to come back to the table in the summer and revisit it. If we say no they don't have to come back to the table. Now it's this isn't good enough so shove it. And don't worry guys they will come back with something later. So the message I get is when it suits the senior guys it's a yes we need to play ball. but when it suits the junior guys (and everybody else with the commuter stuff) it's F off. I feel like the company Slapped me in the face today with a subpar offer, The union kneed me in the balls by saying I don't get anything out of it so you can't either, and spit in the face by all the captains that think yea now we are holding the line since it didn't cost a dime to do it!


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And I understand, recognize, and sympathize with that side of a well stated position (the budgeting side of me even agrees with you), only time will tell if they come back to the table in order to enhance recruiting or decide to shrink/eternally delay growth plans. If they come back to the table and we can fix the pay scales within the next year it was a solid move, if not we left money on the table that should have been taken... now back to my ramen.

So what you're saying is you don't actually have any proof to back up that it was a concession. You even admit our pay rate went up. And since all the WO are supposed to flow quickly, does the 12 year cap matter? I'll give you medical cost was a concession. The rest you're spouting is just BS you can't back up. I understand it makes you feel good though.

Any body that works here knows the flow vote was in Oct to go into effect in Jan. Not "a month or so ago." Also, people who work here realize that when the negotiations were going on, our number of AA hires, under the SSP, got worse. The "flow" benefited everyone. Should we have gotten more? Absolutely, but the guys negotiating the flow didn't want to ruin their soon to be easy path to AA. Had we said no to the flow, all the pilots for the last 5 months wouldn't have gone to AA because the SSP didn't require anyone to actually get hired. Would we have said no to additional flow? Probably as one more a month doesn't really shorten anyone's time under all the other contract violations. Too many things have been passed with the promise from management to revisit them later and that they will have to get better. Not once have they come through even when it's obviously needed. Recruiting and retention are the companies problem and this joke of a bonus won't solve it. My problem is getting the company to match the rest of the industry. We were on par two years ago. We aren't anymore. If we shut down most pilots on property can go somewhere else and make more money. Hell a lot of us are considering it anyway as oppossed to the assumptions on here that no one would leave.

I know I am. I am losing faith that the company is going to step up on this and with the environment changing so quickly it makes you feel like you need to make a decision before the boat sails else where. And if you believe the retention bonus wouldn't fix their problems (which I think we all agree on) then accepting and letting them come back with more later shouldn't have been a problem. I will probably feel a little differently after sleeping on it, who knows


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I hear ya. It's a gamble both ways.

We take the money even though both parties know it's not enough. They could come back soon or be stubborn and not want to admit they didn't offer enough, as we suggested, so they wait longer. I think they've proven they would rather kick the can than actually do anything.

You had those rates in place before the contract. Didn't matter if you signed if you got the same amount of airplanes the same rates would be applied with or without the contract. So essentially you gave them the 12 and 4 for nothing but the promise of airplanes. And sure 12 won't matter if everything works out perfectly, but what if it doesn't (recession, oil skyrocketing) and I guarantee some of your newer fos will hit that 4year cap. But go drink your kook aid, if I were a PSA FO, first of all I'd be questioning my career decisions and secondly I'd be looking for the door real quick because I would see my captains are only in it for themselves. Every Captain at envoy I've talked to was very happy for us and showed no ill will, would that happen at PSA? Doubt it, its to me me me over there for those upgrade *****s.

So once again, nothing to actually back up your claims? Just your assumptions of what was or wasn't on the books. Got it.

Recession, oil prices, WW3. Sure all that. But none of that stops the thousands of mandatory retirements coming. The majors would contract but not that much.

If we start losing 900s to other regionals believe me that will start a
mass exodus on the FO side ..


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Management has successfully divided a large part of our pilot group against each other. And for that what do they get - unhappy employees in the cockpit of their airplanes that are flying revenue passengers for AA. The first thing I would want to do as CEO as have the people that interact and are the face of my company to my customers unhappy and resentful toward the company. (sarcasm intended) Customer service will be at an all time high - NOT!!!

I am an FO and have been here about a year. I was already considering leaving because the promises made to me are no longer on the horizon at PSA. Quick upgrades - gone! line holder before training is over - gone! 700s from Envoy - gone!

Direct entry captains solved an immediate problem but it sent a message to those of us hired before them that our upgrade is not going to come quickly - it sent a bigger message to possible new hires to not come here because the quick upgrade was gone. Class sizes for FOs have not been what they were before the direct entry program.

I was already considering leaving PSA for a better managed airline with better pay and better opportunity to get to any mainline. Being at PSA pretty much prevents me from going to AA except through the flow - I know per the letter of the law you do not have to wait for flow, but be honest what are the odds of getting to AA outside of the flow if you are at a WO.

Would the bonus have kept me here? - most likely yes.

Does the bonus benefit everyone here? - yes. FOs get the cash but the airlines keeps its FOs and possibly attracts more FOs. Retaining FOs allows for planes to stay and more planes to come - which means possible increase in flow so the CAs get to AA where the money really gets better than PSA.

Does the new hire bonus help? I do not think so. In my opinion the company is giving money to FOs that would have joined PSA anyway because they wanted one of our bases. Why would a FO join PSA at this point except for a particular base when our pay is so far below the industry standard?

Not sure what business school Dion went to but he should ask for a refund. Every decision has a cause and affect and the impact of this decision will be felt for a long time.

What should he do to solve the problem? First and foremost create a pilot group that is promoting the company instead of telling people to stay away. I am not sure how many pilots would tell a candidate to come here - unless they lived in DAY, TYS or CVG - CLT is out of the question for a new hire for probably 2 years to hold a line. If Dion thinks that FO candidates do not take the time to read the forum and talk to a couple of line pilots before making their decision than I hope he is enjoying living in Disney Land.

How do you make the pilot group happy? FOLLOW the current contract for starters, stop manipulating the reserve grid, have scheduling treat FOs with respect, promote quality of life issues.

Ok, the rant is coming to an end. I am a pretty smart fellow and as I look back at how management has treated pilots at PSA over the last 4 years it becomes obvious to me that this place will not change and the time to leave is now.

This is one FO that will be looking to leave in the next month to go somewhere that treats pilots with respect, honors the contract and has industry leading pay. I know I am only one, but I hope that my departure gives the company a small glimpse of what is coming for them. Good to luck all the FOs that decide to stay. I would say if you are a commuter you should look to get out of this place and fast!