Notices
Regional Regional Airlines

Republic vs. Express?

Old 03-05-2007, 05:26 AM
  #1  
New Hire
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 6
Default Republic vs. Express?

Anyone have any sugestions, I have 1900 Total Time 550 Turbine PIC and 900Multi, any suggestions on which would be the best move for shortest reserve, and fastest upgrade? Every company has their own we're the greatest spin. any comments are greatly appretiated.
Dave is offline  
Old 03-05-2007, 06:10 AM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Default

That one is easy - with all the available public information I have I'd choose Republic any day. I saw one of their 170's in Frontier colors the other day in PIT, niiiice.
fosters is offline  
Old 03-05-2007, 07:48 AM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,964
Default

Republic would be the safe bet. They do what they do and they do it pretty well. Pay and benefits aren't the best. Definitely not the worst either. The are growing modestly (mainly just shifting airplanes around, but I think taking delivery of 170/190s still) and have bases all over.

The next 2 to 3 years will either be very good or very bad here at ExpressJet. The charter thing is doing well and there is a lot of money coming in from there in addition to our CBAs with Delta and Continental. That said, the ExpressJet Airlines thing is a big question mark. The general consensus around here though is that if any management can pull this off, ours can. Upgrades are running consistently 24-30 months and there is a lot of upward movement. Most guys are off reserve in less than 6 months (faster in Houston, a little slower in Newark, impossible in Cleveland). If the branded flying takes off and we start getting new airplanes, it would be a very good time to be here at Express. If the branded thing tanks and Continental pulls more flying from us then there might be better places to be.

Bottom line: its all a crap shoot. Especially chasing an upgrade. If theres an airline that has a base where you live or want to live, go there. Commuting is miserable and will significantly impact your QOL. More than a few guys have prolonged their life in the regional world by jumping from airline to airline chasing an upgrade. No matter where you go, what is true today will not be true in a year or 2 when you are eligible for an upgrade.
freezingflyboy is offline  
Old 03-05-2007, 07:56 AM
  #4  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

I suspect that XJet is looking for more codeshare work...they may be using the branded flying to help pay the mortgage on the airplanes until they can find better paying work.

If the branded stuff ends up working out, then great.

Howver one HUGE problem with regionals conducting branded flying (in addition to code-share) is that if you are successful, you will eventually end up competing with your code-share customers About .0003 milliseconds after that happens you will be fired. That's one reason you don't see that outside of very narrow markets (ie Go! in HI).
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 03-05-2007, 07:57 AM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Default

Here's another thing to consider. IMO, the E-170/175 is the future of the feeders. Growth will continue with it. Republic has those things LOCKED UP for the foreseeable future.
fosters is offline  
Old 03-05-2007, 07:57 AM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: ERJ FO
Posts: 1,276
Default

Depends on what you're looking for:

Bases - Republic has A LOT of them and it's mix between hub's and outstations. If you want to live at one of these bases, that's an added bonus. The problem is that we're notorious for closing down bases (reference FLL and MCO). XJT has fewer bases but is less likely to shut one down (I'd be wary of ONT or LAX until they're established).

Pay - On the FO side XJT wins, but on the CA side all things are fairly equal. FO longevity and amount seems to be a sore spot for a lot of people here and they want it address on the next contract. Our's is up in October, don't know when XJT's is.

Upgrade - From what I understand, this is equal. We're both running around 2 years. This could change overnight though.

Contract - Here's where XJTer's may not agree, but from the people I've talked to and with my limited understanding of the XJT contract, we're both fairly equal in the intent of our work rules. Republic has no junior manning, XJT does. All our days off are "hard" days off, they can't touch you unless you get stuck somewhere due to WX or MX. If you do get pushed into a day off, you get 4 extra hours of pay or another day off, your choice. It's 11 days off for reserve, 12 days off for lineholders. The problem with the Republic contract is that since we're "newer", it hasn't "firmed" up yet. Things we intended to go our way were not worded as well as we wanted them to be. But, with a new contract up in October, they will get addressed (hopefully).

Reserve Period - Depends on where you're willing to be based. There were people in my class that never sat a day of reserve and it seems like that trend would continue. However, if you land the 170 on the Shuttle America side...you could have a wait involved. CHQ has by far been growing the most on the 145 and CRJ side. This is where any reserve period would be the shortest.

Equipment - I wouldn't recommend ANYONE come to Republic for the 170. It has engines under the wings and holds 70 people, great. Despite what I personally think about regionals carrying that many people, no one asked my opinion when they started flying them. I'm not totally happy that FO's get paid the same on either equipment. If you got a chance to choose your equipment (I kinda did) I'd go 145. It's more fun anyways

Stability - Both are profitable companies. XJT may have some uncertainty with their branded flying, but with the Delta contract outta LAX they are showing they can diversify and spread their risk around. This is a good thing. Republic is going through some growing pains. We picked up so much flying so quickly that we are trying to catch up with ourselves. I won't speculate on the future, but somethings are going to hurt while we get settled into our new contracts with CAL and Frontier.

Pilot Group - The only thing I know of the XJT is from what my close friends their tell me. They are all happy enough with the people they work with. Haven't heard any complaints. The people I've worked with at Republic have been awesome. Great group to putt around the sky with and they will teach you a lot. I got really fortunate to fly with some pretty senior CA's fresh outta training and the experience was invaluable. They're also fun to hang out with and look out for each other. I'm sure XJT is the same. It seems like both companies are pretty "happy"

Training - Another one that XJTer's may not agree with me on, but I think it's pretty equal. XJTer's do it in house with their own instructors, which works out great for them. Republic uses FlightSafety for their training. Talking to a friend who was in training with XJT, he said some of it got a little disconnected and they started just jumping around random stuff in systems. I've never trained at XJT so I can't say anything about it. But a company with 2,000+ pilots has got to have it's training program down pretty well, so despite any complaints anyone hears, I'm sure it's a good program. I really enjoyed the FlightSafety program. It was very well structured, laid back, and the instructors taught you what you needed to know to move on to the next step (Checkride and IOE). I didn't have any problems in either of them except for the stuff they tell you "You'll learn this on the line". Both companies share hotel rooms while in training. I don't know how XJT pays their people in training, but we pay $400 a week for the first 4 weeks then minimum guarantee after that. Since they consider that $400 per diem, it's not taxed so it actually comes out that you make MORE in the first four weeks than you would with just min. guarantee. Max per diem a company can pay per day is $60...the $400 comes out to like $57 a day.

So...basically, you need to decide for yourself. Hopefully an XJTer can give you some more insight into operations over there. CHQ was my number one choice and since I loved my previous job, I had the ability to sit around and wait for them. If they said no, I would have moved on to XJT. If you want any more additional info, feel free to PM me.
SharkyBN584 is offline  
Old 03-05-2007, 08:37 AM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
HotMamaPilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FO - 757/767
Posts: 1,228
Default

just outta curiosity, what makes a pilot group "good". Everybody that I fly with is basically the same. From a capt's standpoint: yes, some FO's are not as much the company hired hit men trying to kill you as others, but from a first officer's standpoint I consider all capt's basically the same. Neither impressed or disappointed with them. They're just regular peops. With that being said, I wouldn't put any more trust or confidence in them, than I would the guy down the street. Always wondered why some "pilot groups" are praised. I say(with the exception of some REAL *********s), we're all pretty much the same.
HotMamaPilot is offline  
Old 03-05-2007, 08:48 AM
  #8  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: emb-170 F/O
Posts: 49
Default

Originally Posted by SharkyBN584 View Post
Depends on what you're looking for:

Bases - Republic has A LOT of them and it's mix between hub's and outstations. If you want to live at one of these bases, that's an added bonus. The problem is that we're notorious for closing down bases (reference FLL and MCO). XJT has fewer bases but is less likely to shut one down (I'd be wary of ONT or LAX until they're established).

Pay - On the FO side XJT wins, but on the CA side all things are fairly equal. FO longevity and amount seems to be a sore spot for a lot of people here and they want it address on the next contract. Our's is up in October, don't know when XJT's is.

Upgrade - From what I understand, this is equal. We're both running around 2 years. This could change overnight though.

Contract - Here's where XJTer's may not agree, but from the people I've talked to and with my limited understanding of the XJT contract, we're both fairly equal in the intent of our work rules. Republic has no junior manning, XJT does. All our days off are "hard" days off, they can't touch you unless you get stuck somewhere due to WX or MX. If you do get pushed into a day off, you get 4 extra hours of pay or another day off, your choice. It's 11 days off for reserve, 12 days off for lineholders. The problem with the Republic contract is that since we're "newer", it hasn't "firmed" up yet. Things we intended to go our way were not worded as well as we wanted them to be. But, with a new contract up in October, they will get addressed (hopefully).

Reserve Period - Depends on where you're willing to be based. There were people in my class that never sat a day of reserve and it seems like that trend would continue. However, if you land the 170 on the Shuttle America side...you could have a wait involved. CHQ has by far been growing the most on the 145 and CRJ side. This is where any reserve period would be the shortest.

Equipment - I wouldn't recommend ANYONE come to Republic for the 170. It has engines under the wings and holds 70 people, great. Despite what I personally think about regionals carrying that many people, no one asked my opinion when they started flying them. I'm not totally happy that FO's get paid the same on either equipment. If you got a chance to choose your equipment (I kinda did) I'd go 145. It's more fun anyways

Stability - Both are profitable companies. XJT may have some uncertainty with their branded flying, but with the Delta contract outta LAX they are showing they can diversify and spread their risk around. This is a good thing. Republic is going through some growing pains. We picked up so much flying so quickly that we are trying to catch up with ourselves. I won't speculate on the future, but somethings are going to hurt while we get settled into our new contracts with CAL and Frontier.

Pilot Group - The only thing I know of the XJT is from what my close friends their tell me. They are all happy enough with the people they work with. Haven't heard any complaints. The people I've worked with at Republic have been awesome. Great group to putt around the sky with and they will teach you a lot. I got really fortunate to fly with some pretty senior CA's fresh outta training and the experience was invaluable. They're also fun to hang out with and look out for each other. I'm sure XJT is the same. It seems like both companies are pretty "happy"

Training - Another one that XJTer's may not agree with me on, but I think it's pretty equal. XJTer's do it in house with their own instructors, which works out great for them. Republic uses FlightSafety for their training. Talking to a friend who was in training with XJT, he said some of it got a little disconnected and they started just jumping around random stuff in systems. I've never trained at XJT so I can't say anything about it. But a company with 2,000+ pilots has got to have it's training program down pretty well, so despite any complaints anyone hears, I'm sure it's a good program. I really enjoyed the FlightSafety program. It was very well structured, laid back, and the instructors taught you what you needed to know to move on to the next step (Checkride and IOE). I didn't have any problems in either of them except for the stuff they tell you "You'll learn this on the line". Both companies share hotel rooms while in training. I don't know how XJT pays their people in training, but we pay $400 a week for the first 4 weeks then minimum guarantee after that. Since they consider that $400 per diem, it's not taxed so it actually comes out that you make MORE in the first four weeks than you would with just min. guarantee. Max per diem a company can pay per day is $60...the $400 comes out to like $57 a day.

So...basically, you need to decide for yourself. Hopefully an XJTer can give you some more insight into operations over there. CHQ was my number one choice and since I loved my previous job, I had the ability to sit around and wait for them. If they said no, I would have moved on to XJT. If you want any more additional info, feel free to PM me.


Pretty much what he said. For me, bases were important. It is only a 40 min drive to my base from my house. That is a huge increase in qol for me. If you want one of XJT bases then i would say go with them. They seem to be opening up some new bases as well which will add some more choices. They have a good pilot contract as well. Try to pick the one that will give you the best qol.

Good luck
dacm313 is offline  
Old 03-05-2007, 10:11 AM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,964
Default

Originally Posted by SharkyBN584 View Post
Depends on what you're looking for:

Bases - Republic has A LOT of them and it's mix between hub's and outstations. If you want to live at one of these bases, that's an added bonus. The problem is that we're notorious for closing down bases (reference FLL and MCO). XJT has fewer bases but is less likely to shut one down (I'd be wary of ONT or LAX until they're established).
I tend to agree with this assessment. Flying at XJT is very diverse as well. Just because you are EWR based doesn't mean you will do all your flying out of EWR. I am IAH based and just spent a 4 day primarily out of EWR and CLE. Its nice to get out and see the rest of the world from time to time.

Pay - On the FO side XJT wins, but on the CA side all things are fairly equal. FO longevity and amount seems to be a sore spot for a lot of people here and they want it address on the next contract. Our's is up in October, don't know when XJT's is.
XJT contract was just extended through 2008. Not a new contract, just an extension of the current one (with associated pay increases). There were also some sections added for the charter flying as well as some rewordings of parts.

Upgrade - From what I understand, this is equal. We're both running around 2 years. This could change overnight though.
Yeah, about 2 years here right now at XJT. Always subject to change though.

Contract - Here's where XJTer's may not agree, but from the people I've talked to and with my limited understanding of the XJT contract, we're both fairly equal in the intent of our work rules. Republic has no junior manning, XJT does. All our days off are "hard" days off, they can't touch you unless you get stuck somewhere due to WX or MX. If you do get pushed into a day off, you get 4 extra hours of pay or another day off, your choice. It's 11 days off for reserve, 12 days off for lineholders. The problem with the Republic contract is that since we're "newer", it hasn't "firmed" up yet. Things we intended to go our way were not worded as well as we wanted them to be. But, with a new contract up in October, they will get addressed (hopefully).
At XJT, we have junior manning ONLY if you are stupid enough to answer the phone if scheduling calls on your day off. Personally, I NEVER answer the phone when scheduling calls on a day off. I let them leave a message and if I don't like what they have to say, I don't call them back. I am under no obligation to return their call if it's my day off. In addition, they avoid junior manning by "red flagging" open time (paying 150% for any open time that is picked up) whenever reserve coverage drops below 10% of the regular lines and relief lines. Also, IF you are junior manned, you are entitled to 150% pay for the trip (or 7.5 hours of pay if your trip is less than 3.75 hours), an extra vacation day and they have to restore your day off that month with another one OF YOUR CHOICE (you give them 2 choices and they HAVE to give you one of them) or pay you, again, your choice.

Reserve Period - Depends on where you're willing to be based. There were people in my class that never sat a day of reserve and it seems like that trend would continue. However, if you land the 170 on the Shuttle America side...you could have a wait involved. CHQ has by far been growing the most on the 145 and CRJ side. This is where any reserve period would be the shortest.
Reserve varies from base to base. Right now, EWR and IAH are about equal at around 3-6 months. In CLE you will be on reserve forever because they keep reducing lines and the pilots that are there are very senior and want to be there.

Equipment - I wouldn't recommend ANYONE come to Republic for the 170. It has engines under the wings and holds 70 people, great. Despite what I personally think about regionals carrying that many people, no one asked my opinion when they started flying them. I'm not totally happy that FO's get paid the same on either equipment. If you got a chance to choose your equipment (I kinda did) I'd go 145. It's more fun anyways
Stability - Both are profitable companies. XJT may have some uncertainty with their branded flying, but with the Delta contract outta LAX they are showing they can diversify and spread their risk around. This is a good thing. Republic is going through some growing pains. We picked up so much flying so quickly that we are trying to catch up with ourselves. I won't speculate on the future, but somethings are going to hurt while we get settled into our new contracts with CAL and Frontier.
As I said before, the next couple years will either be really good or really bad for XJT. Who knows, ExpressJet Airlines could take off and be the next jetBlue (with a better contract). Or we could face plant ala Indy Air or Vanguard. Either way, our management is one of the most innovative and efficient out there.

Pilot Group - The only thing I know of the XJT is from what my close friends their tell me. They are all happy enough with the people they work with. Haven't heard any complaints. The people I've worked with at Republic have been awesome. Great group to putt around the sky with and they will teach you a lot. I got really fortunate to fly with some pretty senior CA's fresh outta training and the experience was invaluable. They're also fun to hang out with and look out for each other. I'm sure XJT is the same. It seems like both companies are pretty "happy"
As with any employer any where, there a people that are fun to work with, some that are miserable to work with an then most of us somewhere in the middle.

Training - Another one that XJTer's may not agree with me on, but I think it's pretty equal. XJTer's do it in house with their own instructors, which works out great for them. Republic uses FlightSafety for their training. Talking to a friend who was in training with XJT, he said some of it got a little disconnected and they started just jumping around random stuff in systems. I've never trained at XJT so I can't say anything about it. But a company with 2,000+ pilots has got to have it's training program down pretty well, so despite any complaints anyone hears, I'm sure it's a good program. I really enjoyed the FlightSafety program. It was very well structured, laid back, and the instructors taught you what you needed to know to move on to the next step (Checkride and IOE). I didn't have any problems in either of them except for the stuff they tell you "You'll learn this on the line". Both companies share hotel rooms while in training. I don't know how XJT pays their people in training, but we pay $400 a week for the first 4 weeks then minimum guarantee after that. Since they consider that $400 per diem, it's not taxed so it actually comes out that you make MORE in the first four weeks than you would with just min. guarantee. Max per diem a company can pay per day is $60...the $400 comes out to like $57 a day.
Training at XJT was very good, very thorough, very efficient and fair. There is a reason XJT quit using the FlightSafety instructors. As the largest E145 operator, XJT basically wrote the book on the aircraft in actual operations and got tired of having to "re-teach" from the FlightSafety guys. You all know how things differ from training to the line. Imagine trying to learn from a guy whos never flown the aircraft on the line.

Hotel in training at XJT is double occupancy. XJT pays you a lump sum of ~$1600 during the first week of training. Training runs roughly 6 weeks. They do allow you to travel positive space during training if you want to try and go home on the weekends (not recommended).

Hope this helps. If anyone has anything add, please do. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM or ask in the forum.
freezingflyboy is offline  
Old 03-05-2007, 10:12 AM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,964
Default

I'm glad you finally posted a pic HotMamma! Probably gonna get Saab fired up
freezingflyboy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
AUS_ATC
Cargo
29
02-02-2007 06:17 AM
Breton
Hangar Talk
0
06-24-2005 03:01 PM
Frisky Pilot
Regional
0
06-23-2005 02:50 PM
Frisky Pilot
Major
0
06-23-2005 02:46 PM
Gordon C
Regional
0
04-21-2005 06:14 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices