Airline Pilot Central Forums - USA Today Reveals Regional Airline's Low Pay Secret

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- - USA Today Reveals Regional Airline's Low Pay Secret (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/10461-usa-today-reveals-regional-airlines-low-pay-secret.html)

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Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 131405)

It's the exact opposite of what you think; when the supply of pilots is low, the pay is high and the experience is low. When the supply is high, the pay is low and the experience is high.

Either pilot wages are currently at the high end or experience is very high for new hires. Either way it doesnt make much sense.

SkyHigh

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Originally Posted by Joeshmoe (Post 131446)

Spoken like a true management pilot. Keep chuggin' the Kool Aid.

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Originally Posted by pilotrod (Post 131350)

I rest my case. You are the dinosaur I am referring too. You old guys never seem to grasp the fact that you are "employees". You seem to think you own the airline. I hate to break it to you but the "stockholders" own the airline. Management, whom all you guys seem to hate, have an obligation to the stockholders. The unions greed years ago help contribute to the demise of the old greats, TWA, Pan Am, Eastern, Branif, ect. They held a monopoly for years when they were regulated by the govt. then came competition. We live in a free country, to the chagrin of many pro-union democrats. If I want to start an airline, and jump through all the regulatory hurdles, I can. If I want to offer my employees $19 an hour, and they agree to work for it, then so be it. I'm sure if you started a new business, out of the kindness of your heart, and your desire to help your fellow man, you would pay way more than your competition just to help people. Yeah right. I do agree with you on one point however. As long as pilots are willing to work for these low wages, and demand does not increase , then wages will stay low. This is very basic economical principle. I have heard the same argument about flight instructors. Why do they work for starvation wages, why don't they all refuse to work, unionize, and force these scoundrels trying to make money on their investment out of business. Hmmm, does this sound familiar? Delta is a prime example, their union negotiated unrealistic pension plans, there pilots where the highest paid in the industry. The company is dead ass broke because of it. You can cry about managements big salaries, but you are in charge of an asset worth 30 to 100 million, they are in charge of an asset worth billions.

Thought that was a very strong argument for the dark side. Anyone got something to counter that is a little stronger than the tired "chuggin the kool-aid" line?

Its just a period of scumbag management tactics... Using bankruptcy as a "tool". Changing a pilots pay 20-40% will never make or break an airline. Bankruptcy is just an easy way to force concessions while inflating executive bonus's for supposedly saving the day. When you take a rough number like $10,000 an hour for operating costs on an airplane, taking $50 an hour away from the captain and $30 away from the F/O changes that hourly cost to what? $9,920? Hardly enough to make a difference. Sure at the end of the year when the books show the hero executives saved 100 million... what percentage of that of the billions in gross operating costs is it?

Airline Business Model

I must admit, having worked in the financial business for 16 years, I really can't understand the airlines business model. At some point the fares airlines are charging must go up. Fuel cost have sky rocketed, (some like Southwest have hedged fuel cost well, though you can only hedge for so long) employees have taken massive pay cuts, passenger loads are at all time highs, and I can fly cheaper that I ever could on an airline. CNBC did an expose' on American a while back. They showed a 767 flight from New York to LA. The total cost of the flight for the airline was around $50,000. The profit for the airline on this flight was a grand total of $200., and the flight was completely full. One empty seat and the flight lost money.
Travel has changed, the Internet has made it very easy for the consumer to shop cheap fares. If one airline raises fares on a particular route, customers go with the cheaper fare airline, and the passenger load drops on the increased fares, causing them to lose revenue. It is like they are trying to just hang on, hoping their competition goes broke first. Good for the consumer, bad for the employees of the airlines. Bankruptcy laws are also to blame in my opinion. When and airline is allowed to continue operating at a lose, and not having to pay their debts, they have have a huge competitive advantage over the well run airline. Something has to give, because labor cost can not be realistically cut anymore.

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Originally Posted by pilotrod (Post 132171)

Pilot wages can be cut until they reach the federally mandated minimum wage. At most airlines they have a long way to go yet, however management seems determined.

SKyHigh

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Originally Posted by Freightpuppy (Post 131047)

I DON'T THINK SO! I would say it's the major airline pilots that let it happen when RJs came into the picture.

If the mainline guys weren't "too good" to fly RJs, we wouldn't have this problem right now. Don't even go there buddy. Maybe you should pull your head out of your a$$ and face reality. IT WAS THE MAJOR AIRLINE PILOTS that started this mess.

You really have no clue.. The major airline pilots were not too good to fly regional jets. The regional jets were a more effective tool for REGIONAL AIRLINES to fly cheaper from point to point. To get a lower cost pilot into the seat, turboprop captains were offered the jobs. The bigger better equipement was seen a quicker path to the majors. The pilots in majors could give a sh$t what equipment they flew, as long as it wasn't a step backwards in pay and QOL. Regional airlines aren't cheaper just because the planes are more efficient, any company can buy those at any time... The work force is CHEAP. People who are willing to work for less will always get paid less. So this resentment attitude that the younger guys have about the guys ahead of them is misguided. I've been involved in the management and flying side. I left the management side as quick as possible. By taking these low cost jobs in a quest to eventually get into a higher pay legacy/major seat, the number of higher paying seats is declining. Management knows that they are going to continue to cut mainline jobs. The goal for several of the majors is to turn all of their domestic flying over to the regionals and concentrate on the more lucrative int'l market. So if the regional pilot force doesn't dig in somewhere, the wages will always stay at a poverty level. You are missing the points that some of the older pilots are making. By the way, I'm not one of the old guys, but I have been in the business for awhile in maintenance, management, and flying... I understand both sides of the fence. I'm in the same struggle as you.

If the regional pilots are so proud to be there and won't take a stand on their low pay by refusing the job then OK. What is truly sad is those with families and children. Their families have to suffer because daddy has a selfish need to fly airplanes!

I think we all have to admit that things are getting pretty insane and scary with the over worked ATC's, low time, no experience pilots, etc. Granted we all have to cut our teeth somewhere, but in a cockpit of a multi million dollar ERJ with 50 loaded behind that door, not sure if thats the place.

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Originally Posted by sflpilot (Post 132276)

warpppppppped :mad:

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Originally Posted by Ftrooppilot (Post 132290)

warpppppppped :mad:

100% agree, this post about daddy................just insane