climbhappy,
I can see your point but I think the blame lies on both sides. To say that pilots at the majors had nothing to do with it, is not right either. I really don't appreciate you making assumptions about my flying career. You don't know anything about me just like I don't know anything about you. I have been in this industry long enough thanks. I would really like to place blame where it belongs but you are not helping me out by now answering my questions.

I think I took exception to your statement about military pilots and old timers. Your statement sounded like someone who was being catty because they didn't get invited to the party... I apologize if that's not the case, but it came across a little offensive.. especially since I spent 20 yrs as a military pilot. I can assure you that only three guys out of thousands that I know met that description, and one was a Blue Angel. So you come across sounding a little ignorant when you talk about things you seem to know very little about (just an impression.. I could be wrong).
I guess my time watching how management has themselves has jaded me on what is going on in the industry. Honestly it's just smart business in a free market economy. For us as a pilot group to counter their push, we can only stop the downward trend by working together at each contract negotiation.

Pilots in the majors were protecting their own jobs with scope clauses, which was actually protecting our jobs (at least the ones we want to have). Now this may not be true if you intend on being a regional pilot your whole life... but I doubt that's the case.

Wow
 

All right guys lets put this all into perspective. I've got my four year college degree and will have a masters in a couple of months. By the time I can leave my current employer (2 years) I will have over 2000 hours with over 9 years of flying experience. If some great company like UPS FEDEX etc were to hire me I would be happy. That being said, I do believe that pilots are under paid for the amount of experince and education required for the job. Take a look at a doctor, what knowledge and experience is required to be responsible for one life at a time? How does this compare to 200? Anyway, it is supply and demand ....and our demand. This industry has been managed improperly and the pilots helped to pay for it by accepting lower pay. Why?..they had to feed their kids. The bad times are probably over and demand should increase...as ours should as well. Let us not beat each other up here and work together against the "man". We need unions stronger than ALPA to help us as a collective whole. Bottom line, when the demand for pilots goes up our demands should as well. Just my two cents ...but what do I know.

I didn't realize I said anything about military pilots. Shoot, I was going to go into the military myself but the honest to God truth is that I didn't want to join unless I was guaranteed a pilot slot. At the time, the recruiter said that he couldn't guarantee a job. Fast forward 7-8 years and we are in Iraq. I'll tell ya, I am glad I didn't go in. I am too big of a wuss to go drop bombs and get shot at. I respect military pilots 100%.

yeah.. you did vent about military pilots.. If you really feel the way this quote below comes across... make sure the guy in the seat next to you isn't ex-military before you start venting at him. It could make for a long trip. :)

"I am amused at the "old schoolers" who still remember when the only well trained pilots came from the military. Only supermen types where allowed to fly, they had to have perfect uncorrected vision, as well as a huge ego. They were trained by uncle sam, and then went on to make $350,000 a year, with million dollar retirements. "

When you fly with someone.. they've all put their time in somehow. Whether it's 20 yrs of deployments away from their families, years of flying freight in barons, or the $80k mom and dad paid to send you to Comair Academy.... either way.... far too much of an investment to happily fly passengers for what we're getting paid.

cruiseclimb, here is the post. Notice, I didn't write it. It's post #9 on the first page. :)

Leave the ol Frieghtpuppy alone, she flew a SAAB

+1.

Good post.

Fire it up .. not yet ! ... here's the translation ...

Only regional Captains deserve to make more than the national income average ... or right at it. You will be a Captain too some day if we get xx more RJs and fly xx more flights for XYZ airlines.

Hit snooze ... in the cockpit.

What a flame bait !

It was a nice try though ... too bad it didn't differ too much from reality

:eek:

Only one problem with your comparison. The doctor or lawyer or MBA are getting an EDUCATION where as the pilot is getting TRAINING. Doctors, lawyers and MBAs can go out and hang their own shingle. Pilots on the other hand are dependent on an employer and thus can not demand the pay others can. Even the MBA who works for a company has more ability to influence his pay because his skill set is likely much greater. If for instance he cant get paid what he deems a fair wage in the auto industry he can take his skill set to say the banking industry. Pilots on the other hand have no where else to go but another aviation employer. Pilots are trained and not educated. That is why anyone who goes into aviation with an aviation degree has little flexibility to move where as a business degree or a similar degree can help a pilot move onto other lucrative jobs, if needed.